[UnitList] Republic of Finland


#1

[size=150]All Finland work must be carried out in the S44Finns.sdd folder, NOT the trunk![/size]

Infantry Weapons

Pistol: Lahti L-35
Rifles: M-27 or M-28 “Pystykorva” (a Mosin-Nagant variant)
SMG: Suomi M/31
LMG: Lahti-Saloranta “Norsupyssy” M/26
MMG: Maxim M/32-33
AT Rifle: Lahti L-39
AT: Panzerfaust
Heavy AT: Panzerschreck
Molotov Cocktail


#2

I’d like some more help with vehicles and tanks, right now the T-26 and T-28 are in, probably courtesy of Yuri.

As far as I know, the things of note that the Finns took during the Winter War were;

Vehicles & Tanks

114 T-26
50+ BT-5/7 (Most decommissioned or built into other uses by 1942.)
30 T-37
17 T-38
210 T-20 Komsomolets
21 FAI
20 BA-20
10 BA-6
24 BA-10

Guns

532 76mm cannons
271 122mm howitzers
97 152mm howitzers
766 45mm anti-tank guns


#3

This is what, of note, Germany handed over to Finland during the Continuation War…

Aircraft

159 Me-109 (Mostly G-2 & G-6)
24 Ju-88
57 MS-406 (French)
44 CU-75 A-1 to A-6 (French and Norwegian)
15 Do-17z
16 SB-2 (Russian)
11 I-153 (Russian)
30 FW-44

Vehicles & Tanks

30 Stu 40 Ausf.G
29 StuG III Ausf.G

Artillery

54 76mm cannons (Russian)
142 105mm howitzer
72 122mm howitzer (Russian)
68 150mm howitzer
84 152mm howitzer (Russian)
151 155mm howitzer (French)
150 37mm Pak 37/40 anti-tank guns
27 50mm Pak 38 anti-tank guns
210 75mm Pak 40 anti-tank guns
46 75mm Pak 97/38 anti-tank guns
93 20mm Flak 38 anti-aircraft guns
92 40mm Bofors anti-aircraft guns
20 75mm m37 Skoda anti-aircraft guns (Czech)
24 75mm Puteaux anti-aircraft guns (French)
90 88mm Flak 37 anti-aircraft guns

Equipment

~1850 Panzerschrecks
~25000 Panzerfausts


#4

I’m not sure how I want Finland to start. I’m currently thinking about giving them a command squad and truck which morphs into a small base camp which then cannot unmorph. I want them to be mobile, much like the Soviets, but I want them to be different from said Soviets. Thus, dropping their second AA gun, and giving them a truck which deploys into logistics storage appeals to me.


#5

Aircraft

Fokker D.XXI - Light Fighter - FINFokDXXI (Needs Model)
Bf 109G-6/R6 Gustav - Light Fighter - FINBf109G ([color=green]model)
(Mörkö-Morane) M.S.406 - Fighter - FINMorko (Needs Model)
VL Myrsky - Fighter - FINMyr (Needs Model)
Bristol Blenheim Mk. I - Light Bomber - FINBBMk1 (Needs Model)
Junkers Ju 88 A-4 - Medium Bomber - FINJu88 ([color=green]model)
Polikarpov I-153 - Recon Aircraft - FINPol153 (Needs Model)

Guns

Citroën P45 - Heavy Truck - FINCitP45 - ([color=green]model)
2cm Flak 30/38 - 20mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - FINFlak38 ([color=green]model)
QF 40mm Mk.III Bofors - 40mm Anti-Aircraft Gun - FINBofors ([color=green]model)
7.5cm leIG 18 - 75mm Support Gun - FINleIG18 ([color=green]model)
45mm M37/38 - 45mm Anti-Tank Gun - FINM37 (Needs Model)
45mm M1942 - 45mm Anti-Tank Gun - FINM42 ([color=green]model)
7.5cm PaK 40 - 75mm Anti-Tank Gun - FINPaK40 ([color=green]model)
10.5cm leFH 18 - 105mm Light Artillery - FINleFH18 ([color=green]model)
122mm M-30 M1938 - 122mm Medium Artillery - FINM30 ([color=green]model)

Light Vehicles

BA-20 - Light Armoured Car - FINBA20 ([color=green]model)
BA-10 - Heavy Armoured Car - FINBA10 ([color=green]model, UV)
T-26 - Light Infantry Tank - FINT26 ([color=green]model)
T-38 - Light Amphibious Tank - FINT38 ([color=green]model)
T-20 Komsomolets - Armoured Tractor - FINT20 ([color=green]model)

Assault Guns

StuG III ausf G - 75mm Assault Gun - FINStuGIII ([color=green]model, UV, texture, script, FBI)
BT-42 - 114mm Assault Gun - FINBT42 ([color=green]model)

Now, I know this doesn’t look like much, but I propose to make it work by permitting the Armoured Tractor to pull deployed guns. Or something.


#6

Need to decide on armored cars. FAI and BA-20 are built for the same role (scouting), so we probably want only 1 of them. And that most probably would be BA-20, as it’s a later design and is just plain better.

BA-10 OTOH is on the light tank power scale, with 45mm gun. So again it competes with T-26 for a place in unit list. Too bad we can’t really show the difference (T-26 being slower but with better cross-country ability, BA-10 being only fast on roads).


#7

I am unable to obtain definitive examples of the types of camouflage Finland employed on vehicles and tanks. If I could get that, preferably in the form of a tile swatch, I can proceed with skinning these units. I’ve tried to generate my own from photos but this is both time consuming and unsatisfactory… most of the photos are not of actual tanks, and most of the tanks are assuredly not in their original camouflage.

I am testing a handful of people on texturing as well, they’re working with aircraft and guns for the most part.

If somebody will rig the weapons for the infantry, I will update the texture. I merely modified the German one for the present Finnish infantry.

As for the role-replicates, I was toying with the idea where we model and texture them all, but include only one build option. Then, when you build a FAI / BA-10 you get one of the two, but they’re the same role and functionally the same in game, just named differently with different appearance. This would give us more visible unit variety, extra points for realism, and set Finland further apart, at the cost of several units of work. If that isn’t agreeable, I would have the BA-10 and the T-26.


#8

Well, if this discussion will result in anything useful, we may get more movetypes than just TANK/KBOT/HOVER/SHIP. And so we’ll be able to differentiate wheeled and tracked vehicles, and both BA-10 and T-26 will have their places.

As for random units: we’ll basically have to make their stats (nearly) equal, or else result in MP games will depend on luck too much. FAI is vastly inferior to BA-20…

Also, let’s not forget about T-37/T-38. That’s basically a tracked floating version of BA-64, but NOT open-topped (so not vulnerable to rifle fire). Can make for an interesting recon/raiding unit, esp. if available early (earlier than other side’s amphibians).

I’ll try to dig up some Finnish camo, however this will be hard because most Soviet photos of their stuff were done during winter, with winter camo not suitable for most of our maps.



(take note the Finnish identification mark is ‘reversed swastika’, found on most pics with their armored units. Not sure how legal such a symbol is today, since it’s not 100% the same as Nazi swastika, but not very different either)
Also, for future reference. Finnish aircraft camo (beware of porn popups on that site)


#9

Well, I already had the T-37/T-38 in the list, which I’ve updated for the present choices.

At this point, anything is fine. I’ve been playing with something like that shown in the second picture, but I haven’t got the pattern right yet, nor do I have any colour swatches of the paint.

I have been puzzling over what to replace their swastika with. For the aircraft I’m replacing it with the blue circle you’ll see in some early fifties photographs and drawings, but somehow that doesn’t feel appropriate for the land units.


#10

Here is a screen of Finnish units from another game (GZM mod for Blitzkrieg). I’m not sure what their references were for such colors, but they match with the summer T-28 on my previous pic.


#11

Well, I’ll just have to make a repeating/effective texture swatch myself.


#12

There are some tools to make texture files tile-able (in the form of Photoshop plugins, and I believe Gimp also has some). Those might help.


#13

I think I finished the StuG texture for now.


#14

the details need a sharpen, but looking good otherwise :smiley:


#15

So, the StuG III is essentially done in terms of texture, and of the land units, Yuri modeled everything but the Citroën P45, which I’m sure will come along long before it is needed. I’m waiting on some UV maps from FLOZi and will texture as they come in. I’m uncertain as to the state of the weapons for infantry and infantry animations… I know somebody modeled the Finnish weapons, but I don’t think that included the Panzerschreck and Panzerfaust, and right now I’m using modified German models which don’t have the Lahti. If I could get help with the infantry, we could conceivably have a working partial (No Air, Untextured Sea) build done in maybe a month.


#16

I have been looking into the structures and light defensive emplacements used by the Finns from 1938 to 1944 but media coverage of such is very thin. I have learned some things, such as the fact that the T26 and the Finnish T26E are actually Vickers-Armstrong 6 tonners, or that the eventual defeat of the Finns in the Winter War (Despite strategic success in the defensive) was as much the result of the limited defensive space as the limited personnel. And who else on this side of the ocean ever read V.M. Molotov’s speech to the Supreme Soviet following the Winter War, albeit translated? That aside, I have been unable to find photographs or sketches of vital FDF buildings - I am improvising designs for the field structures and barracks, but I would be indebted if somebody could find me images of the various Depots, Armories, Radio and Radar emplacements…

At present, this is the structure list I have outlined. I will produce the concept art as necessary.

Buildings
Field Barracks - Repurposed Civilian Design - Medium Wood Home (Needs 2 Models)
Improvised Outpost - Repurposed Civilian Design - Small Wood Home (Needs 2 Models)
Dugout - Soviet-Style Defensive Design - Defensive Dugout (Needs Model)
Artillery Emplacement - Defensive Design - Artillery Shelter (Needs Model)
Supply Stockpile - Repurposed Civilian Design - Improvised Shelter (Needs Model)
Supply Distribution Dugout - Defensive Design - Supplied Dugout (Needs Model)
Field Armory - Repurposed Civilian Design - Subsistence Farm (Needs Model)
Heavy Field Armory - Modified Civilian Design - Subsistence Farm & Tents (Needs Model)
Field Radio Station - Repurposed Civilian Design - Medium Wood Home (Needs Model)
Dockyard - Repurposed Civilian Design - Wooden Dockyard (Needs Model)

This does mean, first, that concealment/emplacement structures are in the basic building set of Finland, unlike the other sides. Second, until I am provided with information otherwise (I know that Finland was one of the early countries to have an air force, and they apparently began world war two submarine design before Germany.) they will not have the benefit of radar which the other sides do.

Also, did the Russian OT-130/1/3 make an appearance against the Germans during the second World War? I know the OT-130 to OT-133 numbered around six or seven hundred all told, but as far as I know, the Finns only used one. They’re modified T26 which are Soviet built Vickers-Armstrong designs… with flamethrowers.

Also…

Nomenclature - Soviet (Finnish)

FAI (BAB A)
FAI-M (BAB B)
BA-20 (BAB B)
BA-20M (BAB B)
BA-3 (BAF A)
BA-6 (BAF B)
BA-10/BA-10M (BAF C)


#17

Finnish buildings: this and this are abandoned barracks at Valaam island. Also this has some photos of Finnish military buildings (abandoned since WW2, so in a very poor shape). Also, this page about Mannerheim line might be of use.

OT-130 and co. (light flame tanks) were quickly lost in the beginning of war. Combination of light armor and large amount of highly flammable stuff doesn’t do well on a battlefiled where at least 20mm guns are present… So heavier flame tanks were used for the rest of war (OT-34 incl. the 85mm version and KV-8).

T-26 being the offspring of Vickers 6-tonner is not a secret. USSR even bought a license to make it. T-26 changed a bit over time (single turret instead of 2, 45mm gun instead of 37mm). Another tank that is related to 6-tonner is the Polish 7TP. Finns had some original Vickers tanks pre-war, so when they got T-26, they upgraded some Vickers to this standard (by replacing turrets) and thus T-26E was born.

I somehow doubt Finns had much in the radar department. There just was no country that would supply them with such equipment, and I haven’t heard of them developing it domestically.


#18

I merely mentioned the Vickers point as something that I learned while researching. I probably would have known it had I looked closely that the armour of Russia at any point.


#19

I would like some help picking the naval assets. If anybody has suggestions?


#20

I know the Italians gave the Finns some torpedo boats to operate on the Baltics. So the Italian MAS is a sure candidate (and it’s modeled even…)
I know of some WW1 era ex-Russian Empire ships in Finnish service. Those would be patrol ships, I can find blueprints for them easily. No idea about water transports - they surely must have used something, but what could it be? More research needed.
As for destoryers, well… tough luck. They had none (not counting old pre-WW1 ex-Imperial stuff again, but those were not used as destroyers anymore).
Finns fielded 2 coastal defence ships, which would be heavy artillery platforms. Not fit in our scale though.

Ship classes built in Finland before or during war: submarines (no less than 6), patrol boats (kind of like RBoot in general capabilities, probably numbering in dozens), 2 Coastal Defence Monitors.