S:44 Tactics Issues/Suggestions

Thread for S:44 Tactics mode.

Units decloak while morphing, making them completely visible.

A decloak radius multiplier would be interesting to use in combination with the range multiplier.
Grenades works more like grenade launchers when the range is multiplied greatly so they can be abit of a hassle.

I certainly did Neddie. :stuck_out_tongue:

I believe you meant to say “multiplier” not multiplayer.

I think the recloak time should be atleast the time it takes for a unit to reload. Hopefully a “recloak timer” will be implemented in the engine soon.

About the graphical transperacy that units have when they are cloaked.
Can it be removed?

Working on both issues.

Also, transported units do not cloak. This makes it possible to see (on the minimap) transport vehicles by the location of the infantry icons even though you can’t see it.

Units being built likewise are uncloaked when building.

As for units being built: we can just do

set CLOAKED to 1;

at the start of their Create(), this should cloak them no matter what (even if still uncompleted).
Of course that will require changing all the scripts…

No:

function gadget:UnitCreated(unitID)
  Spring.SetUnitCOBValue(unitID, COB.CLOAK, 1)
end

Yes, that’s way better. Haven’t thought of a gadget.

If look ingame at Churchill AVRE , the description says range 1000m , but if u use it , it has only 400 range.
Wich is the right one?

I like tactics maps
I like no teching
I like static income
I like camo-guns
I dont like reverse LoS system, its anoying , can we try something else?

maybe i should explan :
try 2 play deployment on a normal s44 map , all is cloaked , hard 2 scout.
infantry dominates in reverse LoS .
AT guns just need wait that the enemy tank shoots at infantry and it can snipe it from far.
If someone take it 2 normal s44 mode , it will cause porcy gameplay, i will play more defensive than ever.

The idea of sight depending on size of target is wrong, a camoflaged tank(static) in a forrest wont be seen faster than infantry who is running in the forrest.
Movement matters more than size, i have nothing against cloaked stationary units but if they move they shouldnt stay cloaked. Check 'get rid of cloaked stuff ’ thread.

Like?
We have barely tried reverse LoS in my opinion. Custom recloak times, range multiplying combined with a decloak radius multiplier and many “bugfixes” can still change reverse LoS dramatically. I think reverse LoS has potential.

Infantry is a necessity in standard s44 aswell. You need large numbers of infantry in order to scout in standard mode. Except that SMGs are much more easy to use in deployment the infantry balance hasn’t changed much in deployment in my opinion.

I think you mean Tank Destroyers. AT-guns really got weaker in deployment since they are seen when they deploy, are immobile and easily overrun by infantry. Long range Tank destroyers are favored in deployment because they recloak really fast and usually before the tanks have time to return fire.

I don’t see how reverse LoS would make the standard s44 gameplay more porcy. Machine guns gets worse. Stationary Anti-Tank guns get worse. It would propably be easier to counter artillery and selfpropelled artillery aswell. I think it would get less porcy.

I agree. Altough the size has correlation to how much noise and how easy it is to detect a unit it would be good if tanks had higher decloak radius when they moved. Infantry could arguebly have higher decloak radius when they move but I would prefer if they had an option to move while being prone without a reduced decloak radius. :wink:

Engineers can repair units instantaneously.

Technically possible i think

There are a lot of problems that need to be fixed before a serious look at tweaking reverse LOS can be made.

The most important is better control over when units become visible/invisible to the enemy, primarily with being able to change the recloak timer of units. Second is of course morphing/deploying units becoming visible during this process. Then, of course, are tweaking all cloaking radii to make the best of it.

A lot of the things you brought up JAL are present in normal mode, just differently. For instance AT guns “sniping” at tanks that fire at infantry is no different than AT guns “sniping” at tanks that are discovered by infantry, except that in normal mode you never are able to see where the gun exactly is – return fire is at best inaccurate as hell. Deployment mode changes this by making AT guns also appear when they fire, making them easy to return fire against – except for hidden guns, which, being hidden, are harder to hit but also much weaker.

As for tanks hiding in woods being just as camouflaged as infantry, this isn’t true. During WW2 (I think it was in a movie, maybe The Longest Day, or Bridge Too Far) scout planes used to cut their engines and glide over forested areas so that they’d be able to hear enemy tank and vehicle movement hidden from sight but not from sound. Tanks also have exhaust smoke from engines that can be spotted as well as the dirt and dust they kick up (when it’s dry).

And I think Godde was reporting that Engineers insta-repair things. Probably because they have workertime=10000000000 or something.

panzers2.tripod.com/panzer50.jpg

(What was it?)http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/showthread.php?12991-Panzer-Tales/page7

I think u couldnt hear tanks or c smoke if the engine is off while lurking .

I think the idea of returning fire where u have no LoS is like shooting in a fog and not very realistic.

AT guns were never a problem in normal mode. They r bad against moving targets.

Do you suggest that unis should have the option to turn off their engines? :wink:

Assuming that the enemy is using direct fire it should be pretty easy to spot the enemy unit firing and if you don’t have free line of sight to the unit aiming at you, that unit shouldn’t have free line of sight to you aswell.

Reverse LoS is passive , there is no difference between truck, infantry or tank by seeing the enemy unit, because only the targets decloack radius counts.
Smart players will turn ‘fire at will’ off and invade your base with cloaked tanks. :slight_smile:
If a tank hides in the forest near a road , infantry without own vehicle should notice them (if it has the engine on), but if they have own vehicles or only vehicles, they shouldnt notice it.
In current LoS system infantry has a bit more sight than vehicles/tanks. It works there.

There isnt much different from how it works now with ordinary LoS. If a tank drives and is not in LoS off an enemy unit it will go undetected into your base like a cloaked tank would if it didnt drive near an enemy within its decloak radius.

I don’t see the difference with normal and reverse LoS here. If an tank comes into the decloak radius of an infantryman it will be uncovered when the infantryman is not uncovered just like when the tank would be in LoS but not the infantryman.

I am confused . :question:

Lets try this:
normal mode
Puma:
sightDistance=780

US101stRifle:
sightDistance=840

Tiger:
sightDistance=750

If we dont consider that Puma was a scout vehicle , infantry spot befor vehicle and vehicle before tank but the difference is low.

deployment mode
Puma:
minCloakDistance=550

Tiger:
minCloakDistance=800

USGIRifle:
minCloakDistance=350

Wow, i didnt know that spiked improved infantry that much, the difference is much here, but
if u scout with Puma at tigers max decloak range u wont see the infantry and/or vehicles between that, because its passive (sight of the Puma doesnt count) and u cant scout.In normal mode it will see everything between tiger and itself if it can get close enough 780 sight is less than infantry has (not much).

Still Puma can use its speed 2 scout the area, but in reverse LoS it will only decloak infantry if it gets dangerous close (350).

Scouting is important for wargames !!