Proposal for additional units

Here is some propositions for additional units to fill more roles in various armies where roles seem to be lacking somewhat.

Germany:

Sdkfz 234/3 or Sdkfz 251/9 Stummel - Light vehicle armed with leIG 18 infantry gun (similar function to M8 Scott, mobile infantry fire support, HE-only, no turret)

StuH 42 - Direct fire support with 105mm gun, range approx. same as standard 75mm HE tank rounds (so not artillery). Function similar to M4 Sherman w/ 105mm. It is my opinion that guns like these, self-propelled, armoured large-caliber guns, are very good at countering artillery, since they can survive getting into range and pound it with heavy caliber (= pinning).

Sdkfz 251/D mit Wurfrahmen “Stuka Zu Fuss” - In Tech 3 w/ Tiger II, Jagdpanther, etc; has 6 x 300mm rockets, and is a self-propelled rocket launcher.

Sturmpanzer IV “Brummbar” - In Tech 2; similar to ISU-152, short-ranged 150mm direct-fire assault gun

USA:

M4 Halftrack - Standard halftrack with 80mm mortar (same as infantry). No MG, no resupply etc. For vehicle yard.

DUKW or LVT-4 - APCs capable of floating on water. DUKW is more like a truck, LVT-4 is a tracked, lightly-armoured vehicle.

M36 Jackson - Heavy tank destroyer with 90mm gun. US really lacks anti-armour capability on the ground.

M7 Priest - Self-propelled 105mm artillery.

Soviet Union:

SU-85 - For Tech 1; anti-armour capability, as they lack such in Tech 1 (ISU-152 is just not good at tank killing due to its low speed/maneuverability and enormous reloadtime). Turretless tank destroyer with 85mm gun (same as on T-34-85)

SU-100 - For Tech 2. 100mm anti-tank gun. The Soviet 85mm still will not be able to put up much of a fight against heavy tanks; they need something that can damage Tigers, Panthers and Tiger IIs, Churchills etc, as well as be able to destroy lighter armour from further distances. The IS-2 does not perform this function adequately; its gun isn’t that great against armour, it is slow, and has huge reload time.

SU-122 - Standard self-propelled 122mm artillery (M-30; Soviet medium artillery). Like Wespe and Sexton etc.

Britain:

Wasp Carrier - Universal Carrier (small, jeep-like vehicle, except tracked) armed with flamethrower.

M4 Sherman Duplex Drive - Sherman with Duplex-Drive; allows it to float on water like a boat, basically.

Churchill Crocodile or AVRE - Crocodile was a Churchill with a large flamethrower instead of a gun; AVRE had a 340mm petard mortar; short range but could annihilate almost anything.

A lot of these units have potentially very powerful roles in countering artillery due to their armour and ability to lay down large-caliber fire. Self-propelled howitzers and assault guns IMO are very good at moving into range of enemy artillery in a hurry, without having to deploy or having a limited firearc, and laying down suppressive barrages. Unlike static artillery, they can withdraw immediately if threatened. I think this is a very underused aspect of gameplay and could help in large part to break artillery deadlocks; it just isn’t used much due to the low amount of actually available units for those roles.

Other units just provide functions that will be helpful in other areas. Yes, some may see “duplication” of roles between sides (Stummel performing the same role as the M8 Scott and Su-76), but they offer more tactical flexibility without adding a huge number of units. Just 3-4 per side (split between Vehicle Yards and Tank Yards). The Mortar halftrack for instance would be able to provide different types of support than the M8 Scott; it can fire over obstacles and will have a comparitively much larger ammunition storage. The Wasp is just cool shit, zipping around in a BA-64 type thing with a flamethrower. We could even give it a small transport capacity (~4 infantry) and it would become a very useful tool for running around with small squads on scouting missions, capping unprotected flags and causing mischief, just like they did in the real world.

They all have a role, y’see.

some of your idea’s are retarded, but im up for maybe 1 or 2 extra tanks in each nations respective yards.

Some minor corrections: SU-122 is direct fire support (aka assault gun), not a mobile howitzer. Churchill AVRE is meant to blow up bunkers, not for frontline combat (the mortar is muzzle-loaded, which makes reloading it under fire a suicide). A few of the proposed vehs are being considered for inclusion anyway.

what about a flamethrower tank? US used alot flamethrower before the war ends… in 1945. Germany made 100 Flammpanzer III
For operation zitadelle… ^^ would be really cool…

All sides used flame tanks. We just don’t have much targets suitable for them - no trenches, no fortifications to smoke out, not even buildings occupied by infantry. When the bunkers of some kind are in, then it will be time to consider flame tanks.

Until there is a more meaningful distinction between direct fire and indirect fire roles, I do not think we should add more units that provide variations on the tank or assault gun or SP gun theme. I think generally the design provides for interesting play between sides at the moment; there is a definite character that grows more and more pronounced as you work your way up the vehicle/tank tree.

To my mind, adding in units here and there with direct equivalents would erase some of that character and push the game closer to everyone playing one nation or another because their version of a particular role is 15% more cost efficient.

Of the units listed, I think the most suitable for addition are the mortar halftrack, DD sherman, AVRE, and wasp, because they enhance side diversity by adding unique units and roles, rather than filling in gaps here and there. I do not think that we should add units in order to counter artillery, or introduce yet more giant calibre/long range HE throwers into the game. If you think artillery is hard to counter now, just imagine nasty artillery that can move quickly, may or may not have decent armor, and can’t be suppressed or easily flanked would be - there you have SP guns.

Things like the US’s lack of a Jackson are generally intentional - the US SHOULD struggle to address enemy armor on the ground; their best options should be 76mm sherman spam, bazookas, or rocket mustangs. Likewise, I feel that Germany has plenty of long range HE punch with the nebelwerfer and wespe. For Russia, personally I would rather see the Animal Killer doing its job properly before we start adding in things to accomplish that.

It is interesting at first, but after awhile the limited choice in units can become quite dreary, since you’re pretty much limited to one possible choice or decision in any given circumstance. If you’re Germany, well, you build Sdkfz250s and Marders. And then you build StuGs, maybe some Panzer IIIs. Maybe a single Tiger if you’re a little bored.

The limited artillery arc will help sometimes, but not all. Most maps still have quite obvious chokepoints which can still be easily camped by lots of artillery fire.

The point of these large “HE throwers” was that they would serve a similar role to the ISU-152 which is very useful, albeit quite expensive. ISU-152s can not be spammed like artillery can, and neither would the Sturmpanzer. They are easily counterable by any sort of anti-tank vehicle which can move much faster and is more maneuverable than those heavy lumbering beasts, even with their heavy armour they are easily flanked or just pummeled by enemies which fire much quicker than it.

The role is a very important one. I’ve seen too many games last for an hour because there was just no suitable counter to artillery – and I keep thinking “man, if I just had a single ISU-152…”

Or a plane :stuck_out_tongue:

Well i think too thats important that every team have his own character. With different vehicles and would be more interristing if I understand you right. Well i thought about something like “Heroes” for every Country I mean during WWII every Country had something like “Heroes”.
Maybe for US a cloaked Sniper which can “see alot” and can plant bombs or sth. He can be find by spotters.
for Soviets well idk maybe a heavy gunner unit or a Spy-unit.with knife and is cloaked
For Germany maybe something like the Spy - unit able to plant bombs at buildings and vehicles and have a STG-44 or sth. and cloaked like the others yeah and all can find by spotters and stationary guns or sth.

and well every unit can only build once (of these “Heroes”) at the barracks and they cost much and have long build time to be fair. ^^

On a related note, I think the Commando squad you summon from a Commando should come with a single Commando Sniper. Seriously, why the fuck would the S.A.S. drop a taskforce without any sort of ranged support?

It is more about flavour than anything else, but a modified model and texture, the Sniper + a Commando head + a different hair colour. Tweak the stats a little bit and mix for epic victory.

I think there were Seals for the U.S. at some point. Not sure if special infantry are planned for all sides.

it was just a idea special teams would be cool to ^^