Pre-M v210 Feedback & Bugs

Major changes:

  • P4, StuG III 10% more expensive.
  • Marder 10% cheaper.
  • Wolverine, Achilles, Firefly, Sherman 76, Jumbo, Churchill all substantial cost-cuts (15% ish).
  • Fire stuff implemented entirely. Buuuurrrn!
  • Paratroopers fall faster.
  • US Tankyard, GBR Tankyard, Soviet Tankyard, US Vehicle yard 10% cost increases.
  • Pretty much all tanks take a similar number of grenades to kill (between 10-14).
  • Made high explosive do a bit more damage to tanks (not a huge amount, though).
  • Bumped up katyusha damage substantially (it was very weirdly low).
  • Increased logistics cost per rocket for rocket arty to 50. Katy now takes 800 to reload.
  • GBR/US ground attack sorties 10% cheaper.
  • Kangaroo absurdly cheap now.
  • Decloak radius on RPG-43 decreased so the gap between decloak and firing is smaller.
  • V1 vastly cheaper, also flies a bit faster and can take more hits.
  • All stationary AT guns 10% cheaper.
  • Grenades a bit more accurate on the move to fix infantry nading themselves instantly on being unloaded.

1.(FIXED IN SVN) Infantry get stuck when spawn or later when going past corners of barracks.

2.(look below)

3.(FIXED IN SVN) turn buttons are duplicate

4.(FIXED IN SVN) queueable turn commands, aka shift + turn still not working. It was a very useful feature. I’d hate it to be absent from Rel M. This last worked for me in v150, and was subsequently broken in v160.

5.(FIXED IN SVN) V1 needs louder/more irritating engine sound. This happyly buzzing along that it currently has nowhere nearly represents the dreadful fear-emitting beast that it was.

Congrats, Nemo, I think the armour vs inf thing actually works now, and YES, I’m happy about how arty is in v210, imo no change needed… YES it DOES end games more quickly, but this is what was wanted and YES it does generate panic inside the player when he is being shelled… it is normal.

With new engine (0.81.1.3) infantry kills everithing on their way , espacialy rifles (gbr). I saw my halftracks dieng like flies + 3x mg nests infront of my base (so supplied) .
I dont know who like that infantry spam in that game , pumping up cost would show another problem : late reinforcement = game ended in less than 10min.
Maybe the increase of pinning of hullmg and mounted mg, lowering cost of all infantry could help against fast ending games.

What changed in the engine to suddenly make them so unstoppable? Can you upload some replays showing this?

1st time that i saw rifles that effective.

Halftracks can outrange rifles. Its a must against massed infantry. Especially russian AT-rifles.
MGs arent that effective vs spread out infantry and vehicles come out too fast on most maps for mgs to be useful 10 minutes into the game.

Deployment armor doesnt work.
Sdkz 250/9 killing tanks.
Tested in SVN 2390 aswell.

This should be fixed in svn.

Co-operatively building? You mean assisting one another?

New gadget (rev 2395) fixes duplicates. They did turn before - perhaps the problem is that attack/move commands (in fact probably any command) immediately aborts the turn in favour of itself, which leads me on to…

Pretty sure they were never queueable before, but the new gadget implements this. However as stated before any other command will abort the turn, so there’s only really any point queuing them up at the end right now.

Armour vs inf thing??

When you select several engineers to build a barracks, for example, only 1 engineer will start working on the barracks. The others will wait some time and then go to their next order. This has wasnt the case before the new spring engine except for radars where only 1 engineer started the production and the others performed their next order.

With the new spring engine even units on hold position will not turn if there is targetable enemies in Line of Fire. You need to change the firestate to hold fire or return fire in order to make it turn or spam turn commands.

I think he means that AT-infantry and grenades are an adequate threat to tanks but its still usually worth to perform tankrushes.

Nemo, can we talk about molotovs against armour? I hear that now they do 3000 before the flame gutters out when they set them on fire, and this is supposed to change to 600 or so? I’m not sure setting up a flat time/damage limit is the way to go there, but you’re busy right now.

I think Godde mostly cleared things up, thanks.

I have updated the current report to reflect svn r2419.

2.(yet any after and including v210) Multiple cons can’t build the same object from a single order. This is related to the code that makes them fix order if they stand on unspawned object, because I get this message: “fieldpioner build position blocked after 16 attempts”, in the svn version. Assisting/guarding works as usual.
This apparently doesn’t apply for any US engineers collectively building either a supply depot or the large radius supply.

4.(FIXED IN SVN) I’m pretty sure they did, otherways I would not have muscle memory now trying to do it every time.

6.(svn r2396) Very nice to see build bars, health bars, deployment bars, ammo bars, reload bars…

  1. 6.a. Noticed I could see hp bars from enemy inf. I think they shouldn’t be shown.
    6.ä. Can see enemy tank ammo :S How useful can that be to know :wink:
    Can see enemy tank hp.

Two more sub-questions, (actually 3 now)

  1. 6.b. Now both ammo bar and the ammo notification icon show. Kind of doubeled? Of course the bar is more useful for micro and the icon is better for overview… Trade offs both ways. As godde pointed, the old ammo icon is a widget and can be disabled via F11. New one can be disabled completely with unchecking the widget named ‘healthbars’ from F11. How to disable anything selectively like 6.d. requires?
  2. 6.c. For some units, there are so many different “bars” that it clutters the view. Don’t even know what to suggest in this case.
  3. 6.d. Reload bar is nonsensical for all halftracks that only shoot with an mg.
  4. 6.e. ‘Healthbars’ widget used extra 5 to 10% cpu. Isn’t that a lot? This is looking more and more like a CA-ism. Half the places where there is a new bar, don’t need it. This is a serious computational penalty.
    OT: is there a way to profile the scripts? Neddy suggested that I depress the ‘b’ knob while ingame to see what is ongoing but nothing happenes when I do that.
[04:27:26] <[S44]FLOZi> Proposal: Remove all non-s44 widgets from S44
[04:27:31] <[S44]FLOZi> except selection buttons
[04:28:21] <[S44]FLOZi> well, mainly chillichat, buildbars and healthbars
[04:38:28] <[S44]Neddie> I kinda prefer healthbars to be there.
[04:38:42] <[S44]Neddie> Proposal: Replace all non-S44 widgets with S44 widgets.
[04:39:08] <[S44]Neddie> But yes, taking out Chili might be good, though isn't our tooltip through Chili?
[04:39:48] <[S44]Neddie> I do prefer the current mouseover tooltip to what we had before.
[04:40:13] <[S44]FLOZi> healthbars is broen in all manner of ways according to zcram, and it's ugly and slow
[04:40:42] <[S44]Neddie> We can always ask Ralith to improve it. Or do so ourselves. Why is it slow?
[04:41:32] <[SIN]zCram> propably because of too many source lines of code found with '$ cat script.lua | wc -l'
[04:42:08] <[SIN]zCram> either that or misconceptions about NP-completeness and real time computing
[04:42:01] <[S44]FLOZi> really we need to start from scratch with our widgets once SmothUI is done
[04:15:04] <[SIN]zCram> well, the only thing I really like about healthbars is how clearly and precisely it shows tanks, mortars and guns ammo business, for example I had no idea before that the AT gun only incorporates 4 shots with full ammo.
[04:16:33] <[SIN]zCram> health and deploying persentage were already covered before, alto I must admit that deploying "bar" gave a better overview with less glancing time
[04:16:49] <[SIN]zCram> the rest is most likely not required/wanted.

7.(FIXED IN SVN) Sdkfz 251/1 couldn’t unload it’s contents (inf). This was the first one I ever built, but I couldn’t reproduce it with the subsequent ones I made. I have now noticed over time that usually the ones you build early in game most likely have the misfeature. Now that you can’t deploy halftracks, there is no way to get inf out of this kind of buggy halftracks. And because this tends to happen with the early ones that are most likely to actually carry units to battle, not having them able to unload SERIOUSLY changes the outcome of the early game. This is a very annoying bug.

8.(FIXED IN SVN) Sdkfz 251/1 will not tow the field gun, but put it inside.

9.(since v200? confirm pls) In yards it seems that the default is now ‘maneuver’ not ‘hold pos’, I’m very angry about it, how can I fix? Is this spring related or s44 related? Tanks, vehicles, self-propelled artillery and snipers will run into the enemy trying to get a clear path to shoot and thus get themselves killed. This is extremely noob unfriendly. These units should always be spawned with the setting on “hold pos”. Also, I have never seen a unit in S:44 that benefited from the “roam” option, so it should be removed from S:44 altogether. It’s a lot of work to set them on the correct setting, there is trouble with chaning the setting when it lags and as I said, noobs unbenefit from the current state of affairs.

10.(svn r2396) US tank yard blinks cyan while upgrading. It is very annoying. …and so do the other US yards. German yards upgraded very nicely, with a white bar.
Later findings: british yard blinks cyan when upgrading and has a rainbow bar (old upgrade bar), and a blue bar that is maxed out, saying “paralyse” | Interestingly, now GER yards do the same, while in the first game with svn version I swear, it had a beautiful white bar. The blinking disappears if I disable ‘healthbars’ from F11 menu.

11.(FIXED IN SVN) Queable turning only works SOMETIMES, perhaps 30% of the time, and only if I keep the instance selected, release shift and depress shift again when it must do the turn.

12.(any since engine upgrade to 0.81) Turreted vehicles and tanks turn themselves in battle when not asked to do so, thus exposing their sides and rear, and also refuse to be turned manually. This was supposed to only affect non-turreted units when I last heard? Now non-turreted units work great and turreted ones kind of suck.

13.(FIXED IN SVN) US halftrack still shows large supply radius, which is defunct since there is no deploying of halftracks any more.

14.(svn r2396) One thing that I noticed before already is that the flag influence “place” is spherical but the flag rings that are supposed to denote the place area are cylindrical? Supposedly. So for example on 1944_terra map, with flags that are on the mountains, I can put an inf man in the flag circle area below the mountain, which is inside the ring, but it won’t cap.

15.(svn r2396) With the new healthbars, the white bar when deploying something says “morphing” on it. Sounds a little too much like CA maybe?

16.(svn r2396)
16.a. Undeployed AA and AT guns have little visual distinction when the icons are a bit zoomed out.
16.b. With the previous point’s stuff otherways in place nicely, it would be good for the nubies to see right on that the vickers nor the maxim machineguns’ undeployed icons reflect the fact that they won’t fire when undeployed.

17.[ALL FIXE IN SVN]
17.a. Opel Blitz will load 15 inf men OR 1 field gun and 3 inf men, however when it is towing the field gun, it should still take maximum amount of inf with it. I have served in the army, and I know perfectly well that with a trailering gun we can fit men as many as there are seats, ammo for the gun and our gear in the middle of the truck (between the seats) and under the seats. The way it is now is nonsense.
17.b. When towing the field gun, it is loaded the wrong way. It should be attached to the truck with rear end first.
17.c. [EXCEPT THIS]If I tell men to board the blitz, (not blitz to load men), and there is more men then space inside, they will “chase” the poor thing throughout the map (and even into bad places, cluttering things in an ugly fashion). What I think they should do is to drop the boarding order when the blitz confirms that it is full now.

18.(related to 12, since engine upgrade)

Engineer did get stuck at a rax corner, but recovered without intervention in about five seconds. Update: panzerfaust got really stuck at hq, didn’t recover automatically.

I agree on the issue with molotov, I think it might be making too much damage to tanks in some situations now? Will this have to be again rethought when the way partisans are spawned will be changed?

[01:27:08] <[S44]Neddie> Godde, if you have any ideas for how molotovs should work over time against armour, I'd love to hear them.
[01:29:17] <[SIN]Godde> maybe that armor would accumulate damage from molotovs, or maybe molotovs could paralyze tanks
[01:35:03] <[SIN]zCram> I was thinking about engineers putting out fires
[01:49:32] <bobthedinosaur> grunts do that too, with wet empy sand bags, they wack the fire -  no joke
[01:51:01] <[SIN]zCram> yes I was just thinking about it, if you drive back among your inf, maybe they can put it out
[01:52:12] <[SIN]zCram> but in that case, instead of fire gradually lowering the tank's hp, after a while of burning it should just explode from the ammo and petrol inside, and be fubared, if the grunts haven't put out the fire by that time

Вперёд! В борьбу и к победе!

About 6, 6a and 6b.
It seems to clutter the view.
They might be really useful.
Its mostly estethical.
It is a widget.
You can just disable it ingame if you want.

Im a little confused about normal sherman and upgunned sherman.
Normal sherman costs 2680 and upgunned sherman costs 3000.
I don’t see any drawbacks except that the upgunned shermans needs a tank depot upgrade of 4500 command.
But that makes sense if you compare the Scott to the panzer3.
The scott stands no chance against the panzer3 if it comes in range and the scott even costs more. Yeah, you need to upgrade the vehicle yard to get the pz3 but still.

Cheap, fast shooting US inf is supposed to kill all the pz3, right?

I looked at the arty in svn r2396. :unamused:
Well, tbh I am afraid this will be the opposite outcome of what uber was complaining about. Narrow arc, very expensive shot, expensive unit. It will be privileged to be able to spend the extra cost to allow oneself the getting of arty. And as it is now even more suitable for long range base bombing, not support of lines, the gap between good players and a little worse players will be bigger.
Revert, concider my recommendation at the replay topic. Also, one would need very many storages, so with that change staying it would need to once again increase storage capacity and make their explode area smaller, as they wouldn’t fit on maps other ways…

So far roo and v1 changes have made improvement while they are not ruining games either.

Rifilemen balance (ranges, reload time) might need a slight adjustment? Also, are they too good against soft vehicles?

I am a sinner , i used rocket plane supply hunting, arty base snipe and infantry spam in 1 game. Infantry spam works best with US and GBR.

German mobile AA, Sdkfz10, aims at its target but will not shoot until the platform walls is fully lowered.
Compare it to a rocko, or a pop-up cannon that needs to raise, open before it can shoot.
Is this delay intentional for german mobile AA?

The SU-85 seems overpriced.
The Jagdpanzer is the closest comparison.
Both turretless with the same cost (3200 and 3300).
The Jagdpanzer has much better frontal armor and much better armor penetration.
The SU-85 has somewhat better damage but that doesn’t do much if it can’t penetrate the enemy armor.

They want to keep the SU-85 shit because supposedly it had bad optics and it was produced in low numbers and was pricey. RUS has cheap medium tanks…

US Ducktruck should have a supply radius, it’s a transport truck.

Then you could rearm ships with it. O_o