Infantry upgrade weapons

Awhile ago, S:44 used to have a feature where infantry would upgrade their weapons after they got a lot of experience.

German riflemen would have their bolt-action Kar98K replaced with a semi-automatic Gewehr 41 carbine; MP40 would get the StG44; Russian rifle would get the SVT-40, etc.

I really liked this very miniscule addition to gameplay and though it was pretty cool but for some reason everyone else didn’t really care for it and it was silently dropped dropped at some point.

Anyway I still like it and want to keep the dream alive! So I’ll jot down a few possible upgrade options for weapon replacements here:

British Rifleman - No 4 Lee Enfield > No 5 Lee Enfield “Jungle Carbine” (semi-automatic)
British SMG - Sten Gun > ???
British LMG - Bren > ???
British AT - PIAT > ???

German Rifleman - Kar 98K > Gewehr 41 carbine
German SMG - MP40 > StG 44
German AT - Panzerfaust 60 > Panzerfaust 100 (longer range)? Panzerschrek > ???

Russian Rifleman - Mosin-Nagant - SVT-40
Russian SMG - PPSh-41 > ???
Russian AT - RPG-43 > captured Panzerfaust 60

US Rifleman - M1 Garand > M2 Carbine?
US SMG - M1 Thompson > M1 Greasegun
US LMG - BAR > ???
US AT - Bazooka > ???

Upgrades can also be improvements to the way a gun is operated. For instance, the BAR could possibly become a more LMG, like the Bren, firing larger bursts from the prone position at a faster rate than currently.

Russian AT: RPG-43 -> Panzerfaust. Literally millions of those were captured by RKKA in 1944-1945. Also, some 5000 Bazookas were received from lend-lease, but those weren’t used much.

Good call. I’d go for Panzerfaust as their range is lower than the Bazooka. List amended.

US Rifleman - M1 Garand > M2 Carbine
US SMG - M1 Thompson > M1 Greasegun

Are either of these really upgrades? I don’t really know what could be used as upgrades to any of the US guns… the carbine was a different role and less effective front line weapon than the M1, and the grease gun was just a cheaper, crappier alternative to the tommy gun.

For the ppsh-41 the PPS-43 could be used, but again it was more of a less expensive alternative than an upgrade.

For the panzerschrek, the blast shield could be added to the tube.

The M2 Carbine was a version of the M1 Carbine that was capable of fully-automatic fire, so yeah, that’s an upgrade.

As for Greasegun, found out while researching it that there were a lot of problems with the killing power of the Thompson, apparently it was rather weak, which meant it lost killing power at range, had a hard time penetrating armour, etc etc etc. So figured Greasegun could be more powerful, basically.

PPs-43 has basically no operational benefit over the PPSh, it’s simpler to build, that’s pretty much it, so not much sense there. Otherwise I’m at a loss as what to do for them.

Another option for riflemen is to give them rifle-launched grenades.

this would be cool on a smaller scale or mutator or something… also rifle launched grenades +1

Well, I think it’d still be a cool factor for our larger-scale game. Ultimately these armament variations would have a negligable affect on overall infantry balance and would really only provide for some extra wow-factor and polish. Although highly-attuned players who actually make the effort to group together high-experienced infantry with upgraded weapons would probably do much better against a player who doesn’t bother at all. hehe, imagine a stream of StG44-armed riflemen.

Got a perfect upgrade for the German sniper:

StG 44 with IR lamp and scope. Automatic sniper fire! Obviously less range than a regular sniper, and probably rapid semi-automatic rather than full-auto (that would be too deadly). Though perhaps he can have a full-auto standard StG 44 at close range… give those Snipers a bit of a chance when they’re jumped by infantry sweeps. :smiley:

Sniper losing range might actually prove to be a downgrade. Also, what kind of bonus the IR sight can provide? We don’t have night or other limited visibility conditions. Will the scope just increase sight range so much that the sniper can work w/o observer?

British Rifleman - No 4 Lee Enfield > No 5 Lee Enfield “Jungle Carbine” (semi-automatic)
British SMG - Sten Gun > De Lisle carbine ??? or the “Welgun”
British LMG - Bren > Browning M1919 chambered to british 303?
British AT - PIAT > Boys anti-tank rifle??? :stuck_out_tongue: well it has longer range… right?

my 2 cents

German Rifleman - Kar 98K > Gewehr 41 carbine
German SMG - MP40 > StG 44
German AT - Panzerfaust 60 > Panzerfaust 100 (longer range)? Panzerschrek > ???

Russian Rifleman - Mosin-Nagant - SVT-40
Russian SMG - PPSh-41 > high capacity drum of 71 means less time to reload slighlty increased rate of fire
Russian AT - RPG-43 > captured Panzerfaust 60

US Rifleman - M1 Garand > M2 Carbine
US SMG - M1 Thompson > M1 Greasegun
US LMG - BAR > M1941 Johnson Light Machine Gun
US AT - Bazooka > M6A3 Bazooka Updrage?

The AT - Bazooka, assuming that these are the 2.36inch ones, the upgrade would be a good idea, 2.36 inch ones were useless against T34, even a pointblank range against T34s. The upgrade would be 3.5-inch Super Bazookas, which turned the tide against North Korean Armoured divisions, although these were airlifted from the USA, and I think develped during the korean war, and the Bazooka was more effective against Emplacements and fortifications, and for the Purpose of AT, the Panzerfaust was often viewed by a much better weapon that many US infantry would be using the enemies weapon.

Varients of the Bazooka during WW2 were: M1A1, M9, and M9A1, and the M6A3 was a rocket, but passing 1943 it was dramatically less effective.

As for the Sten Gun, there were a large number of variations, the Sten MK V was in use by 1944, you could use the Mark VI with a barrel length of 7.8 inches

There were a number of supressed versions (Mark IIS and Mark VIS models) but they heated up quickly.

I know this weapon wasnt used in large use, but I just really like it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solothurn_S-18/1000

The Solothurn is planned as an Italian AT rifle (maybe not the 1000 model though). Why would Allied forces use this mainly Axis equipment?

Didn’t say they were gonna use Axis Equipment, although Panzerfausts were generally better than most Allied Equiviliants, and they quite alot of these in the Inventories.

any news on upgrade ideas?

The No 5 isnt semi automatic…

Indeed, it was merely a lighter repeating bolt-action with some serious recoil and accuracy problems.

I think the Commandos should get the De Lisle Commando Carbine.

correct me if i am not right but between the MP40 and STG44 are differences in the using. Well, if im correct the MP40 was for close combat and tank crew mans, the STG44 was a replacement for some Kar98 soldiers and sure also for close combat i would more prefer a elite (not cheap) squad with stg44 because during 1944 not all soldiers/divisions had the stg44 if im correct but its to late here to watch for some facts ^^

StG44 = assault rifle (think AK-47). It’s not the same class of weapon MP40 is (which is submachinegun), currently there are no weapons of that class in game at all.

Basically in simplistic terms it offers the range, accuracy and versatility of a combat rifle with the automatic rate of fire of a machinegun, making it in general just a much more versatile weapon than either submachinegun (short-ranged) or rifle (low rate of fire). It could replace either the rifle or SMG weapon; however it was generally thought that the bolt-action rifles would be replaced by semi-automatic carbines.