i'm back with possible projects and a complaint

Hi,
I’m back for how many time don’t know…

  • I can resume work on projects I stop for computer reasons and studies… :
    Sdkfz 222 : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1092 - I think germans lack of fast wheeled vehicle, so the Sdkfz 222 as a recon unit (not as infantry support) should be a good add.

Junkers 52 : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1083 - I spoke with Nemo few days ago, he told me that germans paratroops are to forget. I can’t grumble because as I read in a book they were almost used as ground units in 44-45. But for fun should be a cool add.

Regelbau 630 : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1078 - S44 as no defensive structure, in this way the bunker is a new add, this is not a bunker to protect infantry, so I thought in the past to better working on a smaller blockhaus where the rear is open to allow infantry and AT-gun enter ( irc a tank too, but don’t remember my sources). A such add should be good for german and soviet. I’m not sure of the feasibility of this because that mean when someone enter, the bunker start fire with same weapon that the one who enters

Other possible projects to start :
88mm PaK 43 : since we play in 1944, we should able to get such gun instead of PaK 40, cheaper than tank killer, and should able to one shot T34 and Sherman and down any heavy tank.

Sturmgewehr 44 : the first assault rifle! this weapon was realy used since 1944, and was a good response against the superiority of then number of american and of russian infantry.

Opel Blitz Ambulance : to support infantry by healthing faster, same range like the ammo truck. I don’t have a lot of pictures of this one, but should not be too much hard to do.

If vaterland needs something else, you can propose. I can work as well on 3D, texture and lua scripts.

barbed wire :
I asked Nemo if he plans to add barbed wire, he told me that he doesn’t want to block infantry, I think he’s rights, because I crossed barbed wired several times, ok they were no MG who aimed me, but it’s possible to cross them. So something come in my head, and irc I didn’t say that to Nemo, but barde wire should maybe a good add if it forcing infanty to crawling and not able them too shoot. Don’t know if such things is possible in spring.

my complain :
I expose here something i already said to nemo. (In 1vs1) Russian is too much powerfull. Even they are to build their base from scratch, they can in the first 5min having easily numerous inf and spamming them. Germans can’t do that and have to stop the spam. So while you stop the spam, russians can take all flags on the map you can’t protect in the vicinity of your base. So two things come in my head, first you guys (team members) you try to keep the historical accuracy, that’s realy a good stuff but for me you sacrifice the gameplay. The main problem is the time to build, russians can too faster building barracks and basic infantry. So i’m really curious how you can say thats balanced. The second things is, historicaly germany lost the war, so if you do the game in the aim that germans should have to loose (what i think) it’s good for player to know that.

Gameplay always beats realism. Always always. There are two primary levels of fun in S44: one of them is as an intensively balanced RTS designed for competitive play; another one is as a way to play with toys that resemble real life counterparts and create ‘what if’ situations. I have always (–always–) striven to keep the factions equal in power but unique in design; if Germany is losing, it is not because we made them weak for historical accuracy, but because one player is better or worse than another (in an ideal world).

As for Soviets, if you feel they’re too powerful, start playing as Soviets and winning all the time! I really encourage people to abuse things they think are unbalanced, since that helps me see that it is unbalanced faster than “I keep losing to USSR.” If you think it is broken, take advantage! One of two things will happen: either 1) you’ll discover that they’re perhaps not as powerful as you thought, and are very tricky to play well or 2) it is actually broken, and I’ll realize it when I start seeing player A who usually gets crushed by player B dominating while playing soviets, but losing badly while playing other sides.

As for your suggestions:

  1. Puma is a -blazingly- fast wheeled vehicle! And sdkfz250 isn’t so bad either (even if it is a halftrack).

  2. also, US already has paratroopers, and the sides ought to remain distinct from each other.

  3. Germany already has so many anti-tank options! More than any other faction by far, actually. Not only do they get a very powerful AT unit in the vehicle yard (Marder armed with 75mm pak40), but they have the Jagdpanzer IV and Jagdpanther! Not to mention that generally the German tank guns are the best around (or at least generally better than their Allied equivalents in armor penetration, with the exception of the 17pdr).

  4. Stg44: not that many were made (about 450 thousand) and it would feel a lot like the BAR troops. There are reasonable reasons for and against including the Stg44, but the biggest argument for me is that infantry combat plays really well right now, so I don’t really want to mess with it.

  5. Ambulance: infantry already heal at insane rates when left out of fire for a bit :stuck_out_tongue: Also this would be increasing the micro demand on players by a fair bit. That said, we’re thinking about helping infantry survivability by plugging in some kind of ability to ‘dig in’ or build terrain modifications.

6)Bunker: what, sandbagged MGs and anti tank guns aren’t enough for you? :stuck_out_tongue: the game already tends to be pretty defensive once the initial expansion stage is over, but infantry digging in should cover this.

Is it time for wishes ?

  1. increase at_infantry decloak radius.

  2. more armor ingame plz

  3. watchtowers , scouting units wich can use the binocs over small hills.
    EDIT:

  4. M36 Jackson , Brummbär , BL 7.2 inch Howitzer

Use scout planes if you need sight over a hill somewhere, or be sneaky with scouts :stuck_out_tongue: really, its hard enough as it is to deny scouting.

More armor? more tanks? o_O or just tanks with more armor, because you feel that tanks are underpowered somehow.

I really don’t think the AT inf decloak radius is that much of a problem. they don’t get kills that often unless a player 1) intensively micros them or 2) the enemy has 0 infantry support…which is pretty much how it should be. If AT inf get a lot weaker, suddenly a player who gets vehicles or tanks before another one can just rampage around the map pretty much risk-free.

I would suggest to give one STG44 in a Squad. Shouldn’t effect the balance that much. Also the STG44 was original already available a full 2 years earlier and was spread on the eastern front without the knowledge of Hitler. The STG45 (father of the G3) was planned to be the direct competitor of the STG44. However in 1945 its was planned to replace the STG44 because the STG45(M) was cheaper.
Anyways I didn’t played Spring1944 for a longer time but I think the guys balanced everything very well. There is no need for more uberweapons everything depends on the players skills and what doctrine he prefers with his army. :slight_smile:

GBR has a bigger problem now , even Godde noticed that they cant recover from heavy infantry losses . I lured his brens early into a mg42 trap in a nuclear winter 4vs4 game, i saw him retreating and killed his brens because they r slow.
The problem is old, but with the income change now even more noticable i suggest cheaper commandos or 2 vickers mg per squad instead 1.

first no, i’ll not play soviet. you seems to don’t understand, i loose against US aswell, but is not same kind of loose.
Example: in small map, russian can use their “2” trucks to move their morta+MG+guys near your base pin your army, German as only one MG which in actual game is less ranged! so we can’t kill the mortar while the RU mg pin the squad… if we have at least one halftrak, at the beginig that will be more balanced, russian will not moved their troop near your homebase. I think (i don’t check that) russian can easyly suicide the whole of his squad to kill the first ger builder, and then german player is doomed! deploying the AT gun takes on smal map too much time to be really effective against such attack. Moreover the ru can use on truck to speed the fire rate.
Another thing, I really curious to know why the maxim has more range than the MG42, I checked on two websites his effective range is 1000m like the MG42, I don’t remeber now, but check the fire rate too, MG42 is faster IRC.
why RU sniper can shoot farther than ger sniper ? one again i say you should consider that marksman can not shoot at more than 800m, I think that all sniper/marksman should shoot at same range, and no more than 800m. Why 800m, because that’s the range for rifle+optics for RU and GER in WW2. If i wrong correct me. A sniper it’s an exceptional shooter, at least you should give more ranged to the actual marksman/sniper when he kills, for example +1m by kill, with a limit to 1000m.
nb : I cannot speak about GBR or US vs RU

well, puma is a good veh, i love to use it as inf killer, but i never used as scout, first his cost, second it comes too late ingame where T34 and Sherman can already able. When i say scout veh, I think a very cheap veh, with or without wepon who can go faster, observe and retreat, even a motorcycle/sidecar should be good for that. The recon plane is quiet useful, but german need HQ to build meatshield

thats an argument, but german has tank like US too, so why they should not have paratroopers ? I have two or 3 osprey publi. who speaks about them, and one has a beautiful drawing of a german paratroop+gear in december 44… let me remember that german has no option to do ambush actually! that the reason i propose bunker…

if germany has no option to do an ambush, we should be able to crush more easily ambush, MG bunker should be good for that.
remember that a bunker wasn’t destroyed easily with usual guns/tanks same for flamethrower. deployed gun are too much vulnerable.
Germany used a lot of bunker so we should be able to get them.
I’ll speak later about bunker again…
about dig, tank can be digged too…

such things was an idea, but i think all side should have ambulance, with strong effect in GER and USA side, medium efect in GBR, and weak effect in RU. With that you can slowdown the auto-healing.

Otherthings, yous should put a max of the health you receive when you hit foe, I found that exaggerated to see a rifleman with 1000HP, a MG with 6000Hp or a KT with 16000HP…

I guess

do you know how many KT was build in the whole of the year 1944 ? 377 no more, about the stg44, do you know why it was no more built ? (i’m sure you know) because the lack of material, not because he was useless… and i read that in december 1944 his fabrication was improved. So yes we should able to get this weapons, instead of MP40.
I observed that nobody use the werchmacht bunker, so it’s maybe time to give to him something REALLY useful for the player : first the abylity to build STG44 Assault squad, secon give to him a MG34 like the HQ bunker, so player will use the Werch. bunker for protect/slowdown partisan/paratrooper/commando attacks and built STG44 squad instead of MP40.
BUT a STG44 is not a BAR, I used assault rifle in my life, it uses in the common case like : one shoot mode at long distance (i didn’t check, but i think STG44 effective range should be 400-500m not 600 like the Kar), and only automatic shoot mode at close range, it should not be use as a BAR. (I can work on)

Now, I have a question about the 7.5cm le IG 18 : I read in the past that was a very good gun… well ingame that’s a crap stuff, some times it fired just in front of him… and to kill a guy he need 3-4 shoots… well is it normal ?

Why won’t you play soviets? Seriously, if you think they’re overpowered, start winning against better players by using soviets. I can’t take simple complaints at face value - otherwise the game would zigzag all over the place in design/balance terms. What kind of maps are you talking about, where Sovets successfully do a bonzo rush and pin/kill the enemy base immediately? Can you upload a demo of that happening?

Snipers having different ranges was a bug, they’ve been standardized in SVN.

The Maxim has a longer range and fires longer bursts (note, not higher rounds per minute) because it is a proper heavy machine gun. The MG42 is weird in that it exists somewhere between LMG and HMG. However, heavy mounts with cooling should be able to fire for longer durations, and have more stable mounts --> longer effective range. The trade-off ingame is that Maxims/Vickers have zero offensive capability until they deploy, while MG42s can fire without deploying (to reflect their higher mobility than a Vickers/Maxim).

Scouting isn’t meant to be so easy. A scout plane is expensive because of how effective and helpful it is. If information were free/cheaper, the game would be much less interesting. I already feel that it is too easy to perform a full scout (ie get nearly complete information on the map) using scout planes.

Germany is not getting paratroopers. There are design reasons (keeping sides with unique feels, it is bad design to have troops which are ‘just better’ than other troops - every unit should have a unique role) and balance reasons (infantry are fairly stable in balance terms, adding major variables like new units could seriously destabilize the match-ups).

I’m not sure what you mean when you say that Germany has no options for ambush. German MG42 traps are perhaps the most common and devastating traps/ambushes that exist in the early to mid game.

Infantry will never get 1000hp <_<. They max out at about double their original health. Anyways, HP is a very rough indicator - it reflects how well that unit can stay alive. I don’t think it is out of the question to state that a highly experienced tank crew or infantryman had twice the survivability of a brand new crew or soldier. I don’t mean they could take more hits, just that they had more savvy, more instincts, etc. etc. Obviously that is a subjective view.

Yes, only ~350 odd KTs were built. But lets compare apples to apples - if we’re talking about main-line infantry weapons, the Stg44 isn’t even -close- to the others. Consider: ~6,000,000 M1 garands, ~17,000,000 Lee-Enfields, ~14,500,000 K98ks, and ~37,000,000 Mosin-Nagants.

Sure we could compare to the BAR, of which only 100,000 or so were built, but that isn’t really the point. If we went purely by production numbers, 90% of what you’d see on the field would be shermans, T34s, or riflemen, and very little else.

The point is to give each faction a unique feeling and fairly unique set of tools. Germany has -very- effective automatic fire from the embedded MG42 in each rifle squad. They don’t need more automatic firepower, and just like the paratroopers, adding units which are ‘simply better’ than other units is bad design. An assault rifle trooper would be the same as a rifleman, except better - perhaps with slightly reduced range. The difficulty with replacing a MP40 assault squad with a set of Stg44s is that the role of such a squad would -substantially- overlap with that of the rifle squad. It would be very, very difficult to balance in such a way that both the rifle and the Stg44 squad had unique roles, because those weapons served an essentially similar purpose.

The LeIG 18 certainly kills infantry in one hit - usually many infantry at once. I don’t know what happened in your case, but it is quite effective against infantry (but vulnerable to snipers or mortars).

As for bunkers, perhaps. Once upon a time we had a simple MG bunker for Germany. The barracks bunker is pretty rarely seen because it doesn’t have much purpose in most games, and we’ll probably re-purpose it or do away with it at some point. If your base is getting shelled so heavily that you can’t keep your barracks alive, building a bunker barracks is probably not going to happen.

I would say the KT is like the US paratroopers… because there’s actually nothing on allied side which you can compare to the Royal Tiger (I think). But getting defense bunkers would be something more uniqe to germay especialy that Germany is specialized in AT warfare and of course in 1944 they were more in defense than in attack… except Hitlers failing ideas of some attacking.

Also Germany is getting the Volkssturm or? I remember they can ambush.

I think EatMyShrapnel is struggling with the problem that troops can rush the German base directly on the beginning on extremely small maps. I don’t know that but I can imagine fairly well that its possible to take them out… … we should test and record that.

I use the bunker barracks always later in game…

Germany ? ,
with germany u can fight any side , do vehicle spam !
if the enemy is pushing before u got your vehicles , retreat to your HQ and dont panic , use HQ’s mg and supply radius(even smaller than before still usefull).
Hardened Barracks have their use, they have storage, but a mg 34 on it would be nice.

I thought GBR commandos will get changed to naval landing troops that would be nice !
i would like to c 3 types of commando

  1. from barrack , heavy grenade and Sten big decloak radius.
  2. Glider drop, not changed , with satchel and Sten small decloak radius.
  3. Naval commando , can swimm and satchel and sten , big decloak radius.

Why i want to c commandos changed , bad ingame expeience . In my last game in rysia i rushed commando drop (with resources high) to pwn enemy infantry like in old games , but they found skfz 250/9 on the battlefield and were killed or had to retreat. Did i mention that i still had to stop any other production to get them produced. commando drop too expensive and low use after MG 1.52 .

I think commandos aren’t protected against sdkfz 250/9 fire srsly if they would withstand it. It would be a WTF moment. Like Sherman with short 75mm would kill a King Tiger. Wouldn’t you retread if you would be up against a Sdkfz 250/9? Except if you have the right Anti-Tank weapons?

I have had ideas to expand the infantries capabilities but never bothered to post them, this seems like a good topic to post them in now.

Also, I would love the Pak43 but then you’d have to have an RSO or something of that sort to tow it. I don’t think it would be overpowered and have honestly often wondered why there aren’t 2 types of towed AT weapons. A light category, with the american 57mm, brit 6lb, german Pak 38, Russian 45mm. And a medium category which would be the current assortment of AT guns. The lighter ones could also have the option to shoot on the move and get HE rounds, making them something between the Inf guns and the AT guns with lower HE and lower AT respectively. Another interesting note is that the soviets haven’t gotten the 76mm m1927 gun already, which would roughly be like a LeiG18. The lack of heavy arty is also surprising. With vehicles I have no comment other then I hope a churchill crocodile will be introduced along with a limited assortment of Flak tanks for GBR and GER having the Crusader AA and the wirbelwind, flakpanzer38 etc respectively.

Now to the main topic of infantry.

For each of the factions it would be nice to see a new type of squad called an engineer squad which would have a variety of equipment. They would be able to make basic trenches and lay mines but could also fight in assaults, being armed with loads of explosive, including satchel charges(but they’re not cloaked so a disadvantage vs commandos) and they could all clear mines. There would also be separately upgradeable or recruitable vehicles. For germany it could be that the 251 goes to 251/16 with flamethrowers 251/17 with assault bridges, or the one with the rockets on the side. For soviets the T-34 could get a mineroller or highly limited in ammo flamethrower. For the USA the sherman could get a bulldozer attachment or a mineflail. For Britain the Churchill AVRE with an assault bridge and the Petard demoliion mortar would be nice, as would a sherman crab.

In the case of Germany it could be 6 pioneer riflemen, a flamethrower, and someone armed with AT mines.

For Soviets it could be 6 sapper Smg gunners, 2 flamethrowers, 2 Faustnika teams, and 2 sapper riflemen. All would get body armor, increasing resistance and making them a potent assault force.

For americans it would be 6 engineer riflemen, 2 flamethrowers, a guy with a bazooka, a bar gunner, and 2 guys with bangalore torpedoes and smgs.

For GBR, you could get 7 riflemen, a Bren gunner, 2 flamethrowers, and a commander with a STEN.

Other infantry ideas I’ve had include rangers for the USA working like the commandos do now in Britain. Guards riflemen for Russia, armed with 6Ppsh’s, 4 SVT40’s, and two DT lmg’s, and capable of functioning as tank riders. For Germany SS Panzer grenadiers armed with STG’s, an Mg42, a trooper with a panzerfaust and two guys with a Panzerschreck, They could shoot from halftracks and would be extremely hard to pin, also there could be FJ troops with 4 riflemen, 4 guys with the FG42, a sniper with a scoped FG43, a commander with an MP40 and 2 troopers with panzerfausts, capable of digging in and becoming a cloaked immobile AT nest that would be hard to destroy and could be built anywhere but could not be left unless deployed like the HMG’s. All of these troops would be extremely expensive.

These are just suggestions and there are hundreds more that could be, the problem is, that it would take much time, and could unbalance the game or make it two confusing.

Those ideas sound a bit like CoH to be honest. Wouldn’t exactly like all my late game tanks to have mine clearing capacity, that would defeat the purpose of laying minefields entirely. The current engineers can already lay mines and personally i don’t see a point in having special infantry units to double for current engineers. Besides the Russian version sounds very OP weaponry-wise. Would like to see special infantry such as SS, Soviet Guards and Rangers, but it does make me wonder how would adding such uber units change the game?

Now, while CoH is a great game i kinda like the aspects in which Spring 1944 is different from it. Wouldn’t really want it to become that similar to CoH. I want to enjoy playing both of the games for their differences. :slight_smile:

guys, i read all comments, and i’ll post a response to some of you but i don’t think to do that before next weekend.

One week ago i jocked Nemo and said :
“so you want not Fallschirmjager? you sure , well… i’ll do retaliation… as retaliation I’ll make a GUI!”

was a joke, but Nemo looked like interested.
I know a few how to make a GUI, today I burn my free time (sorry girls) at playing with gimp and there I present to you my first GUI mockup. Most of my ressources were out of my head, honestly i play only Spring 44 not any other game, so I did a journey over the net to take a peek on GUI of other games , well only a game called Compagny Of Heroes looks to have a decent esthetic GUI, so you could check isn’t similar but that was a good start for me. Mock-up :

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/mockupj.png/

The higlited button is an exemple of a clicked button. the deploy will be under the main icon.
see the difference on HP/ammo/range icons with the next one and say to me wich is better :

States :

In futur i’ll add a construction bar, ressources bars and multi-select units bar.
at the end i’ll add some scratches and other eye candy stuffs.

if u have advice, or you have screenshots who can help me plz share. I take a long time to found a way to make icons for fire states and movements. If you have better ideas shoot!

AWESOME!!! srsly Please I want a UI. Your stuff looks cool.

I always loved the UI of a good old German RTS game calld “Thandor”. It was so easy to use and u always had your view on the battlefield. For the Ressource bars and stuff you may want to check the “Thandor” UI. Look at the Top right of the screenshot next to the Map:

Its an extremly old game and even featured full 3D graphics back then but thats another story. I loved it :slight_smile: Even my old 500Mhz PC (1999) could run that ease!

Ressource bar :

Construction bar :

the arrows would be used to change page if needed. The building facing can be selected here east was the current direction. Note, the jagdpanther icon was the only used because i was too lazy to dl right icons and scale to show for example the field pioneer buildmenu, so it’s not a multiple selected units menu or something like.
mock-up updated :

i think a cool stuff to add : when mouse comes close of the ressources bar she disappears sand appears mirrored at the upper left corner.

I didnt say that commandos should be protected vs skfz250/9 fire , 6 commandos (3000 command) should be able , with some losses prolly , to kill 1 skfz 250/9 (950 command) or a daimler,AEC,Greyhound. Thats easy with a 2ndry weapon , a short ranged heavy grenade.

my 1st wishlist wasnt accurate here my 2nd try :

  1. HullMG (that resolves 1&2 of previous list)
  2. M36 (because they need it)
  3. staghound is a good infantry support but the badest AA vehicle , so AA crusader for GBR (US has AA from every vehicle,tank) , ZSU-37 for russia.
  4. MG on hardened germanbarrack
  5. scoutsquad, its anoying that u have to build something else to get them.
  6. The commando improvement

@EatMyShrapnel fantastic work!

AEC should have an HE round and MG like it did in real life. It should also either be labeled AEC II and given a 6lb or labeled AECIII and keep its 75mm. Right now I think its labeled AEC II and has a 75mm.

Right now it is labeled AEC MkII and has a 6pdr :stuck_out_tongue:

EatMyShrapnel/rocknrolla: nice, those look awesome!