Future of Spring: 1944?


#41

That’s just an illusion. Destroyers are immensely powerful things compared to our regular ground forces; the average destroyer contains the equivilent of a battery of heavy artillery (120-150mm) and a dozen or more pieces of anti-aircraft munitions ranging from 20mm to 40mm. Smaller combat ships like Motor Torpedo Boats carry several 20mm or 40mm guns; assault ships can contain anywhere from 75mm-105mm cannons. While they may not be “named” as being a battleship or a cruiser or whatever, it’s all about scale; Destroyers will be the most powerful units in the game, hands-down.


#42

Tiger88:

Launch a game of Lyuban on a map with water, put your mouse over the water, and type /cheat

and then type /give gbrmonitor

edit: or ruspr7, or gertype1934, or usfletcher

That should be big enough for you.


#43

but its just a model for a mission, would be unfair xD for MP


#44

I’m not denying they’ll be the heaviest units around (after all, USN and RN DD’s delivered a lot of the support fire at Normandy) - I was just stating my general RTS habits often run to 200-ship fleets including a dozen BBs. 1944 destroyers would be hard units to counter except by building your own navies or calling in fighter-bombers, and the latter would be pricey in terms of flak-shredded planes.

I was more thinking “hard to fit into the game” as in so far what we have is an RTS based around small-unit ground tactics - relying on armor, arty, and infantry with time-limited air support. For use of navies we’d need monster-sized maps (32x32 minimum, and that might not even leave much room for a ground game, flag space, and naval maneuvers). Otherwise you have a nigh-unkillable game-ender unit sitting static in a puddle and blasting everything your scouts see.

Again, not criticizing the inclusion of navies - just questioning how they’ll be used in the game, how they’ll fit into the logistics resource system, and whether ground units will be also-rans with them around, as they really will be on a whole separate scale and environment level.


#45

I’m working on a collection of 64x64 coastal maps, but I assume they we will just limit use on certain maps.


#46

Tell him that at our scale an Iowa-class battleship would be over 2000 elmos (Spring units) long >_>

Your concern is actually one that I have myself–I can’t see the larger ships as costing less than tens or hundreds of thousands of command.


#47

The trick will be working out the torpedo boats as viable counters. All nations have torpedo boats at the first shipyard, they’ll likely be the most numerous ship type. Depending on how we set ship move values and torp ranges, the big destroyers will depend pretty heavily on screening against those little boats.


#48

I made lots of smaller ships exactly for this purpose. They are in approx. the same power scale as vehicles and tanks. Take a look at USSR for ex. - BKA-1125 is basically a water version of T-34 (up to using the same turret with same weapon), BMO is a floating 37mm AA gun + some support. Of course water craft are a bit more powerful than land units (that same BKA-1125 also has 3 MG turrets independent of the main gun), but them being limited to water kind of balances that.
All of those can be seen by using /cheat /give rusboatyard (or gbrboatyard, gerboatyard, usboatyard, depending on which nation you want to see). Do so over water and it will spawn a factory that can build those things. Their costs are completely foobar in lyuban however, so don’t do that in MP games :slight_smile:


#49

I didnt wrote it ^^ Good damn i need an Quad Core or i7 to run this smooth then xD 32x32+ must eat huge ressources + units even without good graphics its in the end unplayable.


#50

Sorry N3mesis, quote author name got messed up somehow :slight_smile:


#51

no problem, nobody is perfect.


#52

if we ever have biggernuth maps maybe akagi kaga yorktown or enterprise carriers


#53

Hmm. When my battered laptop gets out of repairs I’ll have to test these. The smaller units sound excellent for riverine warfare (IIRC, the Russians still use river monitors armed with old tank turrets to patrol the Amur River border with the PRC). Some of these would also be good for tactical maneuvers - I started testing S1944 on the Folsom Dam (Flooded) map to simulate a bridge-capture operation; boats would allow one to capture the other end without having to fight through a choke point.


#54

Maybe you are pushing the wrong “Quote” button?


#55

Oops - deleted the wrong set of quote brackets there. I’m not used to this “quotes within quotes” setup :open_mouth:


#56

I was thinking. If you really want a BIG SHIPS game. Why not make a micro mod of spring44 with the larger ships, and just not include certain land units, or scaled down land units that you would want to keep. It would be like a different side to the game.

Realistically you can just push for huge maps. It won’t be playable, you have to pic your scale an keep it.


#57

If we had SM3 without bugs we might realistically be able to create large enough maps to support small sea engagements, but there is no way at this scale that we would be able to show a carrier level battle.

We could have a mutator/secondary game which does that Bob, probably with infantry fighting as tokens and platoons, at a strategic scale, but I don’t see that coming any time soon.


#58

Thats why I think it should just be separate, because it doesn’t make sense to have any thing on the naval scale with an infantry scale.


#59

Yeah, and I just told you what it would take to do it… we still need a new map format.


#60

Tried out some of the ships available in 1.06 - dear Lord.

Just asking, are there any plans in the works to continue to add to the ground/aircraft units in the game?