Finland

Finland!

I’ll collect various data here.

Yuri’s Finnish armor data: spring1944.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1194336704
Page on weapons: jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html

I can throw some early Soviet equipment in there (T-20, T-26, BT-7/BT-42, T-28 - all of that Finns used during the war). Those will be modelled (in fact they already are), FBIed, scripted and weaponized, but not textured. Is this OK?

Sounds great Yuri - I’m sure you could use a break from ships at this point anyways. If you don’t mind, I might take a swing at mapping/skinning some of the tanks, to see if I can get any better at it.

spring1944.svn.sourceforge.net/ … 4Finns.sdd

there’s the folder for it. If anyone has really neat ideas on how the Finns should play, feel free to post. We’re doing this somewhat as a little exercise in making something very different (within the framework of S44), so feel free to spit out otherwise crazy ideas (like ditching bases altogether, spawning a team at the start rather than a building? putting that 20mm Lahti AT gun into a general rifle squad?)

I started reskinning the soviet infantry, here’s where I am (I know its a bit noobish, it’s a first attempt, any suggestions welcome) :

Here’s what I have on Finnish infantry uniforms (sorry for megalarge pics).

I don’t know how we can expect to balance Finland with other nations. They just weren’t up to it IRL. They were able to hold back USSR for some time in 1939-1940, but in 1944 things went a different way and they nearly got crushed (they signed a cease fire with USSR just in time to avoid occupation) because RKKA had battle experience from fighting Germans and was completely unlike the massively ineffective force of 1940.
So, what I propose is a side that rewards skilled play more than others. Take the BT-42 for ex. It’s HE power surpasses the StuG, it’s AP power is nearly 0 (except maybe against light tanks), it’s armor won’t protect against anything larger that a rifle bullet, but it’s fast. So it can be used to mass some HE firepower, do it’s job vs infantry/buildings and quickly retreat before enemy tanks get close. Nothing quite like that is available to other sides.
Maybe the Finns should have an advantage on rought terrain (which is very common in their country and was used to great effect vs the USSR during Winter War), like movetypes with more slope tolerance. Maybe they should have an ability to quickly salvage destroyed enemy vehicles (again, like they did during the war). They already get units like no one else (T-28 when I finish the script will be an infantry eating monster with 4-5 machineguns), but those are somewhat obsolete (T-28 is worse than a T-34-76 when it comes to fighting tanks), so they could use some captured stuff.

That’s exactly what I (and I believe Felix as well) was thinking. I figured they’d be like an entire nation of commando-like units, with very strong infantry but very few of them, which depend on drawing the enemy into traps (like the T-28) and disabling/capturing armor.

It wouldn’t be too too difficult to allow the the Lahti 20mm AT gun a certain percentage chance of paralyzing tanks when it hits them.

Now there’s a question (which is quite important for other sides as well, since repair and evacuation vehicles are planned for them): can we use lua to change a unit’s sound set? Like switch it from Russian voice to Finnish one? Then have the unit performing resurrection or capture do that to its target, so it doesn’t sound like we are using a whole crew of PoWs to man it (fun fact: some sources say ~30% of Soviet war supplies during the 1942/1943 winter on the Southern front (Stalingrad) were carried by German trucks, manned by German drivers, who often didn’t even had any Soviet soldiers guarding them).

Would probably be easier to have them rez into a Finnish ‘clone’ of the unit.

However, that solution turns bad when other nations start using recovery vehicles, since that would mean we’d need 5 copies of each unit (ouch…).

From a look into Spring wiki on lua, it seems that a soundset is saved per-unitdef and not per-unit, which is bad. Though I suppose that could be changed engine-side rather easily, it’s just no one had any need to do so until now :slight_smile: Or (crazy idea mode on) we can even have a relatively simple lua script that makes 4 copies of every captureable unitdef on load and automatically assigns a voiceset to them, so from dev point of view we still only have 1 unit, but all the sides have a ‘localized’ version of it (crazy idea mode off).
And yes, that will be useful to all sides. We’ll be able to salvage any not too heavily damaged vehicle corpse, which may give another reason to fight over territory (who will get that battlefield with 15 medium tank remains?) and maybe even to use lighter weapons sometimes (you aren’t very likely to salvage a tank hit by a 152mm shell).

More pics on Finnish forces.

For those concerned: this vehicle carries a Finnish swastika. It’s not the same as a Nazi swastika. Finnish swastika was painted on Finnish tanks as a recognition sign, and those tanks can be seen in the url=http://www.panssarikilta.fi/Museo/kehys-e.html Parola tank museum[/url] (carrying the swastikas). There are some photos of Finnish uniforms on the museum page btw.

Finnish uniforms and largely vehicles (well, tanks and heavier stuff atleast) were German-made copies… but it would depend on the timeframe. During the first Winter War before Finland and Germany became close they had mostly their own and Soviet stuff. Afterwards they began receiving large amounts of German-made equipment and uniforms and by the end of the war Finnish soldiers looked astonishingly like German soldiers, same helmets and uniforms, used lots of imported tanks and vehicles etc.

Who are you and how did you get into our sekrit forumz!? :stuck_out_tongue: