Factories, buildtrees, morphing (or other)

So some discussion about how exactly all the factories are going to work would be a good idea, I think.

I assume we want to avoid the traditional “barracks–>engineer–>veh yard–>veh engineer–>tank yard–>tank engineer–>level 2 tank yard” kind of deal. I also would like to avoid if possible the fairly large lack of choices in the buildtree as it stands right now. infantry being mandatory - ok. but how many games have you seen where the winner decided against light vehs and went guns first instead? how much sense does it make that light vehs are a pre-requisite for tanks?

I’ve been thinking vaguely about a more open tree, but I’m not yet sure how it might work. I’d just like to try to create more interesting options for a player in terms of deciding which forces to focus on. Right now there is very much an “optimal” order in which to build factories. that is, barracks veh yard tank yard (maybe forgoing tank yard for gun yard if you lack money). But you don’t have the option of, say, trying to win the game with infantry alone (at least not really). Nor do you have the option of trying different build orders or emphasizing different forces. Vehicles are totally mandatory to win. Tanks, once they show up, also become totally manditory (with the possible exception of the germans with their Marder).

I’ll try to post some more specific ideas later. I’d love to hear some thoughts on how this stuff should work from everyone, though. More ideas on the table=better.

Well, I think i’ll go with my suggestion in the other thread for now.

Wow, just spent the past 30 minutes typing something, and pressed backspace outside of the text window… sigh

In short, here’s my proposal for definitive unit location/factory dynamic:

First, Gun Yards will build either side-by-side (from the same engineer) as Barracks, or will be built by Advanced Engineers (or it can change per side). Gun Yards will Morph into Heavy Gun Yards, which will contain all units available to regular Gun Yards, plus heavier shit.

Vehicle Yard builds the Engineering Vehicles, and does NOT morph.

Engineering Vehicles build both Tank Yard and SP/Motorized Gun Yard. Both of these can Morph similar to the Gun Yard.

Some factories may not need to morph. For instance, the British SP Gun Yard won’t need to as the Brits have only 3 SP guns. US Tank Yard won’t need to Morph as they have no heavy vehicles.

HERE WE GO!!!:

British Gun Yard

  • Bedford Truck
  • 40mm Bofors AA Gun
  • 17-Pounder Anti-Tank gun
  • 25-Pounder Light Artillery

British Heavy Gun Yard

  • AEC Matador Heavy Truck
  • 3.75" Anti-Aircraft Gun (necessary?)
  • 5.5" Medium Artillery
  • 7.2" Heavy Artillery

British Vehicle Yard

  • Bedford Truck
  • AEC Matador Engineer Vehicle
  • M5 Halftrack APC
  • Daimler Scout Car
  • Staghound AA Armoured Car
  • Kangaroo APC

British Tank Yard

  • Cromwell Mk IV Cruiser Tank
  • Sherman VC Firefly Advanced Cruiser Tank
  • Cromwell Mk VI Close Support Tank
  • SPM Morris AA Truck (40mm Bofors)*

British Heavy Tank Yard

  • Churchill Mk VII Heavy Infantry Tank
  • Churchill ARV Mk II Recovery/holyfuckingshita290mmpetardmortar
  • SPM Morris AA Truck (40mm Bofors)*

British Self-Propelled Gun Yard

  • Archer Mk I Turretless Tank Destroyer
  • Achilles IC Turreted Tank Destroyer
  • Sexton Mk II SP Light Artillery

German Gun Yard

  • Opel Blitz Truck
  • FlaK 38 20mm AA
  • leIG 18 75mm Infantry Support Gun
  • PaK 40 75mm Anti-Tank Gun
  • leFh 18 105mm Light Artillery

German Heavy Gun Yard

  • Sd.Kfz. 7 Heavy Halftrack
  • FlaK 36 88mm AA/Anti-Tank Gun
  • sFH 18 150mm Medium Artillery
  • M 18 210mm Heavy Artillery
  • Nebelwerfer 42 150mm Rocket Artillery

German Vehicle Yard

  • Opel Blitz Truck
  • Sd.Kfz. 9/1 Engineering Vehicle
  • Sd.Kfz. 251 APC
  • Sd.Kfz. 250 Scout Halftrack
  • Sd.Kfz. 10/5 20mm Mobile AA
  • Marder Light Tank Destroyer

German Tank Yard

  • Panzer III
  • Panzer IV
  • Panzer V Panther
  • Bergepanzer III*
  • Flakpanzer IV Mobelwagen*

German Heavy Tank Yard

  • Panzer VI E Tiger
  • Panzer VI B Konigstiger
  • Bergepanzer III*
  • Flakpanzer IV Mobelwagen*

German Motorized Gun Yard

  • StuG IIIG Medium Assault Gun
  • Wespe Light Motorized Artillery
  • Jagdpanzer IV Medium Tank Destroyer

German Heavy Motorized Gun Yard

  • Jagdpanther Heavy Tank Destroyer
  • Hummel Medium Motorized Artillery
  • Sd.Kfz. 4/1 Panzerwerfer Motorized Rocket Artillery

Soviet Gun Yard

  • ZiS-5 Truck
  • 61-K 37mm AA
  • ZiS-3 Field (Infantry Support) Gun
  • ZiS-2 Anti-Tank Gun
  • M-30 122mm Light Artillery

Soviet Heavy Gun Yard

  • Voroshilovets Heavy Tractor
  • 52-K 85mm Anti-Aircraft/Anti-Tank Gun
  • ML-20 152mm Medium Artillery
  • B-4 203mm Heavy Artillery

Soviet Vehicle Yard

  • ZiS-5 Truck
  • K-31(?) Engineering Vehicle
  • BA-64 Scout Car
  • M5 Halftrack APC
  • T-60 Tankette
  • SU-76 Light Assault Gun
  • GAZ-AAA MG AA

Soviet Tank Yard

  • T-70 Light Tank
  • T-34/76 Medium Tank
  • T-34/85 Advanced Medium Tank

Soviet Heavy Tank Yard

  • KV-1 1942 Heavy Infantry Tank
  • IS-2 Heavy Tank

Soviet Motorized Gun Yard

  • SU-85 Medium Tank Destroyer
  • SU-122 Light Motorized Artillery
  • BM-13N Katyusha

Soviet Heavy Motorized Gun Yard

  • SU-100 Heavy Tank Destroyer
  • ISU-152 Super Heavy Assault Gun

US Gun Yard

  • CCKW-353 Truck
  • M1 Bofors 40mm AA
  • M8 Pack Howitzer 75mm Infantry Gun
  • M5 3-Inch Anti-Tank Gun
  • M2 105mm Light Artillery

US Heavy Gun Yard

  • M5 HST Heavy Tractor
  • M1 90mm AA
  • M1 155m Long Tom Medium Artillery
  • M1 203mm Heavy Artillery

US Vehicle Yard

  • CCKW-353 Truck
  • CCKW-353 Engineer Vehicle
  • M3 Halftrack APC
  • M8 Greyhound Armoured Car
  • M8 Scott Light Close Support Tank*
  • M16 MMGMC .50" AA Halftrack
  • DUKW Amphibious Truck**

US Tank Yard

  • M4A4 Sherman Medium Tank
  • M4A3(76)W Sherman Advanced Medium Tank
  • M4A3(105) Sherman Close Support Tank
  • M31 Lee ARV Recovery Vehicle*
  • M15 MGMC 37mm AA Halftrack*

US Advanced Tank Yard

  • LVT-4 Amphibious Transport
  • M4A3(DF) Deep Fording Medium Tank***
  • M4A3(DD) Floating Medium Tank
  • M4A3E2 Sherman “Jumbo” Heavy Tank
  • M4A3 T34 Calliope Rocket Support Tank***
  • M31 Lee ARV Recovery Vehicle*

US SP Yard

  • M8 Scott Light Close Support Tank*
  • M10 Wolverine Tank Destroyer
  • M7 Priest SP Light Artillery

US Heavy SP Yard

  • M36 Jackson Heavy Tank Destroyer
  • M4A3 T34 Calliope Rocket Support Tank***
  • M12/M40 SP Medium Artillery
  • That odd Jeep with batteries of Bazookas attached
  • = a unit which I’ve placed in more than one yard, because it could go in either
    ** = a unit that could go in a completely different yard, ie, the DUKW could go in the river-based naval yard
    *** = a unit that is just a suggestion and seems like it’d fill out a build list

One way to have a less linearally linear buildtree with the morphing idea is to have a morphed factory be able to build all units, but make units that were available in the unmorphed factory cost more and/or take longer to build.

AFAIK that would require making duplicates of every one of those units to increase their cost.

Also, keep in mind the new changes to how metal/CP is managed; now metal cost per tick is determined by the factory (ie, when building, a Tank Yard uses up -50 metal per tick). The underlying factor differentiating units is their buildtimes.

I think it’s fairly non-linear (or will be). From your barracks, you can either go aircraft, naval units, or ground forces – and ground forces are split between combat vehicles and towed guns (and then combat vehicles is split between tanks and self-propelled guns, each of which morph into heavies).

Attached is an example. That’s fairly non-linear.

It’s somewhat reminiscent of OTA buildtree, only with more tiers. And only vehicle branch is probably going to provide additional construction units, other branches can go to adv. factories via morphing (but I really doubt that’s going to work well with ships, I already explained why in Navies thread).