I’ve made like 500 of these fucking threads about Deployment mode but fuck them, my ideas keep changing and I want to keep up-to-date.
DEPLOYMENT MODE VERSION X
This deployment mode would essentially be Spring: 1944 “without bases”. The same tactic of capturing and holding flags to gain increased Command Point income with which to buy units remains; players are able to purchase reinforcements throughout the match.
Players would start off with a limited amount of Command Points with which to purchase their first basic units. Besides income from flag capturing, there would be a steady streaming Command Point income “from out of nowhere”.
Matches will be determined by a ticket counter. Each captured flag will give the owning player a Capture Point every certain amount of time; a sub-option for this game mode will determine the amount of Capture Points needed for Victory (ie 1000).
Several important aspects will need to be looked at:
Balancing. Units are currently balanced (cost-wise) based on their placement in various yards. Looking at Deployment Mode just recently for instance I noticed that StuG III’s and Panzer IV’s are nearly identically priced (when you start you have enough CP to buy 23 Panzer IV’s or 22 StuG III’s for instance).
Most importantly, a sub-menu system for the build menu, as having all of those units in a single build menu is messy and confusing. There would need to be partitioning into various topical menus, such as Infantry, Light Vehicles, Artillery, Tanks, Aircraft, etc, but this will need to be independant of any “mother” factory so that it is always prevelent. Buildpics will also need to be greyed out (as they currently are in current Deployment Mode) if the player can not afford them.
When a new unit is purchased it will have to simply appear around the player’s starting location (we can not guarantee always having a nearby clear map edge to drive in from). As such it will be possible for the other player to “spawncamp” this location; thusly, newly spawning units should be invulnerable for several seconds to deal with this.
This might be called something other than Deployment, since Deployment is fixed engagements with fixed units from the outset. Mobility Mode, or something?
We would need a cost abstraction, probably in another lua file, for this mode. That way we can continue to balance the core gameplay branch without one impacting the other.
Spring: 1944 - Tactics (like Final Fantasy Tactics, get it?!?!)
- Make HQ spawn of all dummy factories.
- Make non-aircraft units invulnerable for ~10 seconds after spawning (LUA)
- Show Sortie Ready icons in Buildbar
- Make dummy factories unselectable, indestructible, invisible.
- Remove ETA widget.
- Grey out buildpics of units that can’t be afforded. Prevent “build stalling” – everything should appear immediately when requested.
- Flag Income Yes/No for ModOption (testing)
- Implimentation of Capture the Flag into default game mode. Set so that flag capturing can commence immediately. Remove the thin white line drawn around the flags (flags already have a better circle around them!)
- Simple LUA to make everything universally visible when it fires (for testing only, can be modified later)
Hopeful Game Options
Flag Income - Set Yes or No. Yes, your income depends on the number of flags you have (more flags more income, essentially exactly as they work in proper S:44). No, you receive a steady amount of Command Point income per tick, and you can’t modify it at all. Capturing flags determines victory points only
Victory Points/Score Limit - Number of points at which a player wins. Preferably a textbox that you can type the points amounts you want rather than a drop-down list.
Victory Condition - Annihilation or Victory Points.
Logistics Resupply Frequency - As it is now.
Unit Selection - Chooses between several different builddefs that change which units are available; Everything, Infantry/Light Vehicles Only, Vehicles Only, etc.
First proof-of-concept test was done tonight, thanks HUGELY to Nemo for getting all of the basics together to make it happen.
First impressions: OMG after playing MoW, being shot at from all directions by ghosts I can’t see is really frustrating. Whatever decision is made for S44 proper, I will definately push to have visible-when-firing feature implimented ASAP.
Another impression is that I may move towards having flags count only for Victory Points scores rather than income. Unlike in S44 when you get steamrolled the game is over, in this mode if you get steamrolled you have to drudge along with absolutely tiny income while your opponent keeps massing and massing huge forces that you’ll never be able to defeat. Huge slippery-slope with no mechanic for a quick ending. Another possible solution is to end the game prematurely if one player captures all the flags, so at least the game can be forcefully ended when one side becomes hugely superior.
Another thing, I will definately have units starting with full ammo when built.
Otherwise however, with the mechanic of capturing flags and whatnot, it successfully kept the “tactical combat” side of S44 without the (IMHO) annoyance of economy and base management. As soon as the game started we were throwing tanks and infantry forces at each other fighting over the flags. No scurrying engineers around, building and queing HQs and barracks and all of that.
Also, about the plan to include more units in this mode than in S44; I think it’s more justified here, as the reduction in complexity/brainpower needed as there is no economy, base management and such, will allow for more units, even ones with slightly overlapping roles. In my opinion it allows for more tactical versatility as you can narrow down exactly what you need far more effectively. Instead of spending a lot on an IS-2 you can spend a bit less for an IS-1 and have some left over for an armoured car, or you can spam a few T-34’s with a SU-85 or two and some infantry. Very customizable.
I agree with that last point entirely. On the seeing things… I’m not so sure, as a gameplay mechanic I think it would work for armour, but… bullets, not so much.
Again, there are very few infantry that can shoot past their LOS. So if an infantryman is shooting at something, he can see it, and it can see him, so it doesn’t really matter either way.
I think I will sticky this thread. Tactics is a misnomer in this case, but I suspect this will just be part of the framework replacing the old Deployment mode, and then we can name this variant probably Dynamic Deployment, or some such.
In the revised Deployment framework there will be, if I am correct in my understanding…
- The original, where you buy X value of units and place them for a fight to the death.
- Complete Destruction, where you buy X value of units and fight to the death, with supplementary forces coming on from map edge based on map control and other factors.
- Ticket Bleed, where you buy X values of units and fight until one person runs out of tickets, which supplementary forces coming on from map edge based on map control and other factors.
I am uncertain at this point whether these modes will be supported on the ladder, but I’m considering adding them as S44 Deployment 1v1 and S44 Deployment Team ladders, provided the modes are played enough to warrant such.
I am currently testing conceptual “global LOS when firing” stuff.
As a first concept test I am simply using “reverse cloak-based LOS” – every unit, structure etc receives a cloak with a decloak radius arbitrarily determined based on their size (for instance large structures get the biggest decloak radius). This also involves activating the globallos “cheat”.
It is hoped that the behaviour will be such to mimic what I’m going for – when a unit fires its weapon it will decloak and become visible over the entire map. Some units will be exempt as I’ve already declared, ie snipers, maybe mortars.
What I found interesting when doing this is how features of specific units that really haven’t mattered before can matter with this dynamic. Turretless tank destroyers and assault guns can have smaller decloak radiuses as they are generally shorter and less visible, as well as smaller vehicles, while big lumbering tanks like the Tiger II will have the largest decloaks of all. Submachinegun infantry can have slightly smaller decloaks than other infantry types. Eventually I’d like to introduce “camouflaged” stationary guns that trade defense for the ability to conceal themselves better.
If all goes well this cloak-based LOS system might be perfectly adequate, as long as some things are changed – mainly the “ghost”/translucent geometry when a unit is cloaked.
Bah, globallos will also allow you to see enemy cloaked units, so that’s a fucking bust.
try setUnitAlwaysVisible (lua gadget)
Everything so far is great – except for the translucent geometry. If I can get someone to modify the engine code to change that visual feature so that cloaked units appear no different than uncloaked, it’d be perfect.
Cloak has 1 more downside (which only matters in games with more than 2 teams): if a unit is uncloaked, it’s uncloaked for everyone. So in a 3-player game player 2 can stumble upon player 1 units and detect them, and if player 3 has los on that spot, he’ll see them too.
I would still like to suggest to merge it into the main mode so as to let the users choose their own spawnunits and let them go on from there… with an option to disable rax/fac when so desired.
Recent revisions in the svn has broken the starting units (changes made by flozi) in the deployment mode.
The random faction in the normal mode was broken too in past : viewtopic.php?p=6273#p6273
But is has been fixed.
We hope that the deployment mode get fixed too.