AT bomblets for IL-2, the " PTAB"

I asked in the chat #s44 to Yuritch if we could have the PTAB anti-tank bomblets for the IL2 fighter-bomber (since the rockets used by the IL2 had far less weight of explosive than GBR/US versions, IL-2 would have to rely on these bomblets to destroy tanks) . He said it would add faction differences, but that it may not be so simple because of how spring engine manage dropped bomblets.

Here is data from complete-anihilation’s carpet bomber: trac.caspring.org/browser/trunk/ … rmpnix.lua
it seems that its bomblets are a burst of 20 with a sprayangle of 64000. May be more experienced modders than me could watch.

For those who are more interested by history:

_ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-2#New_tactics : “Another powerful weapon of the Il-2 was PTAB-2.5-1.5 HEAT bomblets (ProtivoTankovaya AviaBomba, Anti-Tank Aviation Bomb - the number means that it was the size of a 2.5 kg (5.5 lb) bomb, but weighed only 1.5 kg (3.3 lb) due to the empty space in the shaped charge). Up to 192 were carried in four external dispensers (cluster bomb) or up to 220 in the internal weapon bays.”
_ And en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTAB : “The PTAB 2.5 was capable of penetrating 60 to 70 millimeter tank armor, sufficient at the time even for the top-armor of heavy tanks”
_ ram-home.com/ram-old/bomb-ptab.html lol

May be the “four external dispensers” replace the rockets ? or all IL-2 without exception had rockets ?

I’m in favour of PTAB for Il-2.

I tried to make a PTAB weapon. Need to mess with values lots more as it should disperse over an area somewhat smaller than a quarter of 16x16 map :slight_smile:

Added

to Naval test 2817

weapon(ptab) changes :

range = 800
burst =12

fileupyours.com/view/290368/Naval8d.sd7

I did several modifications in the weapon file to get a behavior that look like dropped bomblets :
" dropped=1 " and many other modifications.

If you feel it has too much bombs, then reduce " projectiles= " (if you reduce " burst= " you should reduce " range= " too). If you feel it is too powerfull, then reduce " edgeEffectiveness= " (dont touch " armor_hit_side=top " please :slight_smile: ) .

!! Has been now included in JAL’s mutator !! (this version needs the Test-2817 version installed)

Good add for the Il-2; from what I’ve read the Soviet air-launched rockets essentially couldn’t hit the broadside of a barn.

Here is Il-2 script with weapons 1 and 5 switched (so PTAB can be set as primary).
Edit: and the unit file with weapon slave numbers changed to reflect the new script (basically “main” direct-fire gun is now weapon2 and all the rest of guns are slaved to it).

thanks yuritch.

_ I edited scripts to make PTAB in weapon 1, but instead to switch I bringed forward the other weapons like Flozi wanted (weapon 1 became 2, weapon 2 became 3 …)

_ I used maxAngleDifX=30 in the .fbi unit file for VYa 23mm cannons. (like the values of rokets in order to make these cannons more often used)
IMPORTANT: it seems only one VYa 23mm cannon is firing (nobody noticed it before because the VYa 23mm cannons never fired with the old settings). One VYa 23mm cannon fire by burst of 3 shoots, so two cannons should burst of 6 shoots (it is not the case right now, the “normal” IL-2 is the same about this).

_ I removed the maxAngleDif=20 which was not applyed in cannons.

_ I removed the use of ammo. The weapon is used only one time with the help of the unreachable reloadtime (like US/GBR/GER figther-bombers).

_ I edited ptab.tdf in to reduce greatly damages vs buildings and infantry in order to avoid usages different of the historical usage.

Russian rockets were indeed awful just like german ones the countries who had good rockets were britain and USA

Most early air-launched rockets had low accuracy; postwar it was estimated that USAAF aircraft in Europe had a hit rate of less than 5% with them. They were mostly useful for making tank and vehicle crews crap their drawers and bail out of their vehicles. Strafing was overall much more effective, at least for soft targets; the Panther also had lightly-armored fans and intakes on the engine deck that could under certain conditions be pierced by 50-caliber MGs.

tarrif.net/wwii/guides/a2g_rockets_2.htm : Allied rockets
tarrif.net/wwii/guides/a2g_rockets.htm : german rockets

Yes, rockets of all faction were all inaccurate. If that reality was implemented in S44 or in a mutator, GBR and US would have the worse air to ground support … and russia the best with the infamous PTAB. Russians were the first to experiment rockets in airplanes, with the RS, so the first to notice it was ineffective and so the first to seek a remplacement.

At the battle of kursk, they experimented the NS-37 cannons (which is like the german BK37) and the PTABs. NS37 was not effective vs heavy tanks and required probably more skills to use it than the PTAB. PTAB in other hand did excelent results at begin, when germans adopted open formation the effectiveness of PTAB dropped. books.google.com/books?id=2IsQZW … &q&f=false

About the fact west airplanes used .50cal vs armors, the ability to attack ground with mustangs and other fighters has been removed is S44 because Godde used it to destroy all your storages.

All these problems in balance would be a lot easier to fix in the deployment mode (deployment = no buildings, no storages). In deployment you can beat godde with just 2 ISUs :smiley: .

Actually I think you should add a Bell Aircobra which in fact could destroy a tiger with its nose mounted 37mm. And actually allies did have more accurate rockets not ti mention better training then their soviet counterparts. also the US used napalm, probably more dangerous then anything else.

how much was napalm used in europe? just wondering.

Speaks for itself

Sounds like very little use of napalm in the ETO, and not as an anti-armour weapon.

I read somewhere that it was used during operation cobra by P-47’s and was very useful against everything from trains to tanks to bunkers. Second of all they did use the aircobra for ground attack though I do not know whether this was its main purpose and I doubt it, also even though it only has HE rounds which when combined with the tigers poor top armor and an increased velocity because of the added speed from the aircraft could easily kill a tiger with a hit on the turret or rear hull top

Germans have the solution there with storage bunkers that sould be immune to MG fire. In any case, attacking your opponent’s logistics base is something fighters did a lot of (see the famous clip of US fighters strafing a German train). Aside from building hardened storage units if playing the Germans, the two other options are to use terrain to help protect storage sheds and to make the area a nasty flak trap. It’s hard to get a good level strafing run on a target when you have to first hop over a hill while half a dozen 40 mm emplacements are blazing away at you.

As far as the P-39, it’s possible it was used on occasion for ground attack but in general the Soviets figured they had te Il-2 for that job. Air combat on the Eastern Front was usually low-altitude engagements at which te P-39 performed well and it was typically used as a fighter.

Still it could be like a stuka thats able to fend for itself and is on the russian side, plus napalm is a lack on the US faction and the british could have aircraft capable of twice the rockets(they invented double rails that allowed typhoons to hold 16 instead of the usual 8 rockets.

Tiger88, we never saw you in #S44, so in case you dont know: Godde is an animal that does 200 mouse clicks and 200 keyboard press per minutes. With the old settings, he would micro so well his fighters that all your storages would be destroyed by one sortie no matter your defenses.

Some suggested all faction would have resistant storages, but this has not happened now.

When we say something is not counterable then it is generaly the case. JAL, victim of this tactics by godde, is connected every day he is a good player now so he is very credible (even if he doesn’t have 6 arms like godde).

Like the ptab, making a napalm just needs to play with weapon file variables. Would be very easy to make, but once again for being accepted in the main S44 project, having a weapon that look cool is not enough (need some historical support, and being balanced …). In the naval mutator, japaneses may have a place, and so may be napalm too.

naplam was not used as vastly in europe as in the pacific but it was still used in most important operations