Air domination

Players:Godde, BasiC, JAL, Tobi
Map:DownRiver_Beta
Game version:Pre-M RC 1
Engine version: 0.81.2
Awesome rating (out of 5): ***
Comments: I used German air instead of russian because of how crap russian fighters are able to deal with anything else but infantry.
We see tanks and vehicles aswell.

this is pretty depressing and awful. maybe delay release for week or so while I sort out how to fix this without making useless for people who aren’t godde.

You could just limit the scope of airplane micro. It doesn’t make much sense to be able to manually target on the go with them.

Before you go apeshit with notepad, consider heavy mobile AA?

Standard base flak (40mm) does fairly well against aircraft of all sorts – its only problem is its relatively weak, can be suppressed, and to micro-god players like Godde it’s relatively easy to micro your planes to take out enemy AA. Mobile light AA helps a lot, keeping it on patrol and always moving makes them hard to target but their lighter armament (primarily machineguns) makes them ineffective against heavy air presence.

Heavy mobile AA – Mobelwagen, Crusader AA, something Russian, M14MGMC – would provide much more effective anti-aircraft in (usually) stronger mounts (actual tanks for the Germans and Brits). Its availability should go a long way to helping stave off air domination.

Also it should be noted that Godde goes air dominance like every game and more often than not it isn’t as overwhelmingly effective. Just because in one game it was rapage doesn’t mean you have to go re-writing the whole damned game…

Spiked: godde often doesn’t focus on it, and when he does it tends to break things very quickly unless the enemy has a really large concentration of AA. mobile heavy/armored AA is something I wanted a while ago, but was cut while we were striving to reduce the workload for you. I’d be happy to look at adding it, but I think the problem is a little bit deeper - having a high tier unit that can help you doesn’t provide a ton of consolation if you only have access to the lighter variants (which, really, should be able to hold back a fair few fighters).

It was a bit my fault , i should have scouted Godde earlier, since he tends 2 go air on big maps.Hard 2 use scout planes with russia , i needed the rax all the time, but i could have asked my ally 2 scout.
Russia AA vehicle is the worst one. I think with other factions AA i could have fortified our positions, the german one is good but expensive and need logistics (they were bombed), maybe 500 logistics for german HQ could help, heardened barrack give some too.

Maybe heavier (or at least armored) starting AA could help.

I think it was a good move from Godde ,maybe he knew that russia is weak at AA and germany needs logistics, and a good air general should have a chance 2 win with air.

I know people probably remember, but I started suggesting fortified AA turrets as a structural expansion some time in the distant past, a one-way morph structure from the deployed gun. At some point we discussed constructed gun fortifications, and garrisoning them. This would also be a structural branch approach to the problem, and ostensibly lower tier, at the cost of defensive elaboration.

Just asking (since I’ve never played multiplayer and therefore haven’t had aircraft thrown at me), how does the “incoming aircraft” alert work? I thought from a previous posting that a player is alerted as soon as his opponent selects a sortie for deployment, therefore giving him time to scramble fighters to meet them. If you have enough command to keep up interceptor missions you should at least be able to keep your opponent from hitting your ground forces.

Historically and in RTS games, ground based AA doesn’t save you from an enemy that has control of the air. It can make air attacks costly and reduce accuracy and damage to what can be achieved in a “One Pass, Haul Ass” strike. It will not keep your ground forces and base from getting harried and hit. The best way to do that is to get your own fighters in the air and/or find his Air Control station and blow it up.

When the enemy calls for an air sortie, air sirens will ring for you and a message will be displayed saying that enemy aircraft will arrive in 15-45 seconds.
If you have interceptors or air superiority fighter you will be able to send them in before the enemies ground attack planes or fighter bombers arrive.
Recon planes, british gliders, V-1 rockets and partisan planes will not ring siren or display any messages.

The best way to counter enemy fighters is to call in airsuperiority fighters of your own attack the enemy fighters once they doing something else like attacking your infantry. If the enemy gets more fighters than you, retreat to your AA. Dogfights over flak usually results the destruction of the attacker.

However, if you lost your flak its gets alot harder to gain air superiority.
If you just send in 1 fighter sortie while the enemy have 2-3 airsorties in the air you risk losing your fighters to little gain.
If you don’t send in fighters you risk having all your infantry, vehicles and supplies chewed up by air and the enemy might even send bombers your way to destroy your radar.

Which is why it’s excellent that we can “stockpile” air sorties like we can, so that you can save up.

Godde, next time you play Germany I’d like you to try and break V-1 rockets. I was fiddling around with stuff against the AI and I found that with the V-1’s short build time you can send horrific constant mega-artillery attacks every few seconds (if you’re quick enough) and it was pretty lulz.

Anyway, I don’t find Godde’s air usage that problematic, the few times I’ve played against him his air attacks while they were quite annoying seemed to be one of the lesser factors. They’re not great vs infantry as their guns are inaccurate enough a pass even by Fw 190 (most heavily armed of them all) will only kill a handful and then only if they’re mega-bunched up together. Vehicles are very vulnerable.

As for fortified gun positions, I’ve already made a couple models of potential dug-in fortified gun platforms. I suppose each side should use something different? I don’t know/care, but it’s there.

Stockpiling air sorties wont help if I bomb your radar and even a few german fighters or spitfires can destroy a radar quite fast.

V-1 rockets are really innaccurate. Ive have been on the receving end quite a few times and they rarely do more damage than they cost.
In my opinion they are only good against bunched up buildings and a player should always avoid to bunch up his buildings to close to each other because other stuff like artillery.

I have tested all fighters against their cost in spread out russian infantry. All fighters can kill the russian infantry if you have LoS on them and use an area attack command over them that doesn’t include flags. All except the german air superiority fighter Fw 190 because its main weapon has maxAngleDif1=5 and makes less succesful passes where it actually shoots.

Could decrease all air superiority maxanglediffs to 5, while keeping ground attack aircraft as-is. ATM dogfighters are the premiere ground attack plane because while they don’t do it ALL that well they do do it good enough. Ground Attack planes should be the premire ground attack planes!

One thing that could help would be to make rockets only shoot at things its machineguns can’t kill – GA’s make shitty GA’s currently because when you do want them for light armour/infantry interdiction they shoot rockets off everywhere and that’s a waste. I’d like if they flew around machinegunning everything (and being better at it than dogfighters) and then when a tank comes along have rockets to kill it.

Same with bombers maybe, nobody wants bombs to drop on infantry or some stupid machinegun nest, they want them saved for big armour and buildings…

The other thing is that rockets shouldn’t be all that effective against infantry - the blast radius was very low, postwar analysis showed that even if you detonated an HVAR right next to a Tiger or Panther it wouldn’t damage the tank. Those rockets were armor-killers; if they missed a tank they were little more than dirt-movers - and they missed a lot more than they hit.